HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Distance information is public information and may be exchanged between competitors and caddies freely.
Do you use a range finder/DMD?
- Thread starter Bucket92
- Start date
Distance information is public information and may be exchanged between competitors and caddies freely.
NST
Head Pro
I uses garmain. It's on the side of my golf bag. Each shot I look at it and see a number and choose my club. I'm not wandering round looking for 150yard markers or pacing out how far I am from them. If anything my garmain has made me quicker.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
From the Q&A on the R&A website...
Q. Why not simply allow distance measuring devices without the need for a Local Rule?
A. The advent of distance-measuring devices and their use in the game divides opinion at many levels. Many golfers are fans of these devices as they feel it puts them on a level footing with tournament professionals who have caddies providing distance information, whilst others will argue that there is no place for such technology in the game. As such, it was, and remains, appropriate to allow individual clubs and Committees to decide what is right for them, their competitions and their players.
Also, from the R&A and USGA joint statement on the use of DMDs...
While accepting this development in the provision of distance information, the USGA and The R&A will remain vigilant when considering the rules on distance-measuring devices. As with the equipment rules, the purpose of these rules is to protect golf’s best traditions, to prevent an over-reliance on technological advances rather than skill, and to ensure that skill is the dominant element of success throughout the game. Permitting the use of a measuring device to provide the same information that can be obtained through use of a yardage book or on-course markings is not considered to diminish the skill level required to play the game.
The USGA and The R&A believe that the current practice of allowing distance-measuring devices by local rule remains appropriate. In the current circumstances, the USGA and The R&A are not advocating that this practice should be changed and neither the USGA nor The R&A plan to introduce the local rule at any of their championships.
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Foxholer
Blackballed
Check this out! For all your 'use of technology', did use of Google not spring to mind?
http://www.bushnellgolf.com/general/technologies_how_lrw.cfm
Is this a case of 'a little knowledge...' or simply 'confirmation of the Grunt myth'!
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
But if allowing dmd was a rule, they couldn't stop the tour pros from using them. However the officials word their reasoning, dmds will only ever be allowable under an l/r for this reason, unless they decide that use of a dmd might get your average pro round the course in less than 6 hours.
chrisd
Major Champion
About 4 years ago I was at a practice round at Wentworth and heard Colin Montgomery tell the amateurs he was paired with that, in his view the European Tour would allow DMD's in the next couple of years - it hasn't happened yet but for the reason Murph says, I believe it will come.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Why do I need too ?
Shall we next get rid of big drivers because they help ? Or GI irons ? Or Alignment lines on the back of putters and the course planners and course markers
All items to help a person with their game
Shall we all play with the exact same clubs ? Same balls ? Same Tees ? Same shoes ?
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Never been a grunt so not sure of what the myth is. I presume with a user name like yours you do.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Nothwithstanding all of the above - for myself I don't really care as my distance judgement is as good as it needs to be. That doesn't mean to say...
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I'll say it again - I'm talking about DMDs - the rest have their own rules and regulations. If you want to argue about shoes, clubs, balls etc then on you go. But I have only ever asked about DMDs because of rule 14-3b.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
And local rules which override the rule 14-3b ( and verifed by the R&A ) - allows them.
Sorted
Midnight
Journeyman Pro
I use one and in my own mind it does help me, it does not slow my game down and it does help me choose the right club , then I can mess up the strike on my own.
I can see where Swingsitlikehogan is coming from and everyone is entitled to their own view. He does seem to take a lot of stick for having this view , but he obviously believes in it as he has not backed down yet and I would put money on him not backing down.
I do like the idea of a club having a medal comp without the use of the GPS, i have a feeling I would struggle even more like this , as I am clueless when it comes to distances .
I can see where Swingsitlikehogan is coming from and everyone is entitled to their own view. He does seem to take a lot of stick for having this view , but he obviously believes in it as he has not backed down yet and I would put money on him not backing down.
I do like the idea of a club having a medal comp without the use of the GPS, i have a feeling I would struggle even more like this , as I am clueless when it comes to distances .
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Careful chosen words IMO - and playing semantics a bit with the word 'skill'
I think all agree that using a DMD to obtain an accurate distance measurement can reduce uncertainty in the mind of the golfer - and I think all agree that uncertainty is one of the main reasons we mess up a shot. So can I deduce from these two statements that something that reduces uncertainty in the mind of the golfer is going to reduce the probability of the golfer messing up? I think it is reasonable to make that deduction.
Absolutely no mention in the above of the players skill level being affected in anyway - that is unless you include the mental aspect of the game under the heading of skill...
And I note the mention of 'yardage book or on-course markings' And I absolutely agree. But neither is much good to me if I am on the wrong fairway. Anyway - been there done that one.
I shall continue to confound and astound my PPs with my ability to judge distance by eye and use of course markers (most of the time)
As I said a few posts ago - the fact that I don't use a DMD really doesn't bother me and as far as I am concerned doesn't put me at a disadvantage in respect of me playing my game. That they can give others an advantage in some circumstances I maintain is the case.
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Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
How can having one be an advantage if not having isn't a disadvantage.....?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Any advantage another might get in a competition isn't going to affect how I play my game. Why I said - doesn't put me at a disadvantage in respect of me playing my game.
Golfmmad
Tour Winner
I don't have a range finder or a DMD and will not be getting one.
Quite simply I prefer to use my own judgment as to how far I have to go and what club I need to get there. I'm not always right but that's probably because I don't execute the shot as well as I could.
For me it boils down to a matter of choice as to what clubs, balls or devices a player decides to use. I don't see it an advantage when an opponent has a DMD and I don't - the same as he or I may have better or higher spec clubs.
Each to their own and all that..............
Quite simply I prefer to use my own judgment as to how far I have to go and what club I need to get there. I'm not always right but that's probably because I don't execute the shot as well as I could.
For me it boils down to a matter of choice as to what clubs, balls or devices a player decides to use. I don't see it an advantage when an opponent has a DMD and I don't - the same as he or I may have better or higher spec clubs.
Each to their own and all that..............
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
the principle you so strongly assert relates to the provision of the distance information - how that information is measured or delivered is not relevant to that principle.
I can assure you that the modern yardage chart not only enables the caddie to provide the player with the exact yardage to any hazard, green reference point from any point on the course, but from any where even you could put it! They would be sacked if they couldn't. They can also convert any slope on a course to an effective yardage adjustment from anywhere too - but they are permitted, as would be reference notes on a course planner prepared in advance by a player using a slope DMD or practice!
That the average player is more comfortable turning up at an unknown course with a Skycaddie rather than Bones (having sent him there the previous week to spend a week mapping it all out and recording the information in a manner that's acceptable to both the Tour and the caddies union) isn't a matter of principle but convinence.
If you really want a valid principle to debate, handicaps are based on your normal play, with your usual clubs, ball, caddie and if you own and use one, your DMD. Any advantage an individual might gain is already reflected in their handicap - job done. Principle of potentially unfair advantage dismissed.
In practice the only thing they do for the average competitive golfer is reduce the financial overheads associated with preparing to compete on 'away' courses or reduce the home advantage where the away players wouldn't otherwise prepare - which I consider a positive!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Of course I have considered that in thinking about this and yes - your improved distance estimation with a DMD and less uncertainty etc will over time be reflected in your handicap.
But your handicap will not accommodate the impact of getting things drastically wrong in any one round. Apart from anything else high scores (of worse than two over net par) for a hole are ignored when it comes to handicap - but are not going to be ignored in strokeplay competitions.
I accept that I am never going to win this argument in general - but that does not stop me making it - and I will continue to do so especially if I am told that I am wrong. I see nothing wrong in asserting that it is not unreasonable for some specific club competitions to be played with any LR on DMDs temporarily suspended. There is absolutely no harm in that at all and I still wonder why so many see it as their 'right' to use a DMD
NWJocko
Tour Winner
Of course I have considered that in thinking about this and yes - your improved distance estimation with a DMD and less uncertainty etc will over time be reflected in your handicap.
But your handicap will not accommodate the impact of getting things drastically wrong in any one round. Apart from anything else high scores (of worse than two over net par) for a hole are ignored when it comes to handicap - but are not going to be ignored in strokeplay competitions.
I accept that I am never going to win this argument in general - but that does not stop me making it - and I will continue to do so especially if I am told that I am wrong. I see nothing wrong in asserting that it is not unreasonable for some specific club competitions to be played with any LR on DMDs temporarily suspended. There is absolutely no harm in that at all and I still wonder why so many see it as their 'right' to use a DMD
Because its in the rules (local)
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