Do you use a range finder/DMD?

[chrisd]

What I find amazing is that SILH still refuses to accept that

Everyone can own one

Everyone can use one

They speed up play

They only give factual information

Any club that won't pass the necessary local rule to allow them are living in the dark ages

That pro golfers use them build up their yardage charts and if they used them for comps it would speed up their play

That allowing them for anything other than comps would be stupid

That the argument about "unfair advantage" is totally illogical

But we always spend 12 forum pages trying to pull SILH head out of the sand!

 

[El Bandito]

I have a DMD on my wrist, which I frequently use. I also have a laser which I take to new courses. Predominantly for checking out interim distances, to hazards etc....biggest benefit has been understanding what my true averages are. I use the laser on the range.

I still have a copy of a 'yardage guide' I wrote for my self a couple of years ago.

7iron - 155 yards carry, 160 total.

i wish!

no doubt I can hit that shot, in the right conditions and once in a while, but now I know that my 7 iron (struck properly) will carry 140 to 145 most of the time. Generally the DMD gives me a little extra confidence that I have the right club, but certainly doesn't make the execution any better!

 

[Robobum]

Which is great and I have no issues at all in use of DMDs to help players do that. Now in a comp on your own course, put to test your game and your ability to understand and judge distance without your DMD.

In your closed comps, would you also have categories for new members?

It's hardly a level playing field for them to play against a member of 10 years who, by experience, has overcome the architects tricks and knows the distances and clubs to hit like the back of his hand.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What I find amazing is that SILH still refuses to accept that

Everyone can own one

Everyone can use one

They speed up play

They only give factual information

Any club that won't pass the necessary local rule to allow them are living in the dark ages

That pro golfers use them build up their yardage charts and if they used them for comps it would speed up their play

That allowing them for anything other than comps would be stupid

That the argument about "unfair advantage" is totally illogical

But we always spend 12 forum pages trying to pull SILH head out of the sand!

Chris - I'm not against them in general - and on that I have changed my view. I just think it would be good for closed club competitions to be played with any LR suspended - and so playing to the rules of golf as written. Would have the added advantage in that it would shut folk like me up once and for all.

And I really can't see why that suggestion is a problem. Are 90% of us just too wedded to our DMD that we can't live without them? Pretty sad if that's the case if you ask me. Around your own course you will or should pretty much know your yardages (through use of your DMD the rest of the time you play) - so why are they required for closed comps - what is wrong with playing to the rule as written every so often?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I have no problem with you suggesting it.

FYI, at every club I've been at over the past several years, your suggestion has been rejected.

Time to move on...

The OP asked my opinion on whether I would use one and if not then why. I have stated my case and the rest of you argue with me and tell me I am wrong. Sorry - it is simply what I believe - that occasionally there is absolutely no harm in playing to the rules as written and how we have traditionally assessed distance.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In your closed comps, would you also have categories for new members?

It's hardly a level playing field for them to play against a member of 10 years who, by experience, has overcome the architects tricks and knows the distances and clubs to hit like the back of his hand.

You are suggesting that a new member could claim that a competition is unfair and the playing field isn't level because he hasn't played as much as his FCs? So what would you propose to correct this problem?

And as it happens new members with higher handicaps DO have their own 'high handicap' competitions - as do those in our Academy. Besides - a lot of new members play a lot more golf than I do so they should get to know their distances and the tricky stuff pretty quickly.

It seems that we are in a position that most who use DMDs see it as their inalienable right to use them at all times (to all intents and purposes). And that those few of us seeking suspension of that LR from time to time are wrong? Why am I wrong? It's a LR - which by definition can be changed or suspended at any point by the club. So I am wrong to be standing on the side of the rule 14-3b as it is written?

Oh well.

 

[ColchesterFC]

what is wrong with playing to the rule as written every so often?

But which set of rules are you proposing that we use? The original rules of golf as written in 1744? The ones adopted by golfers in St Andrews (later to become the R&A) in 1754? The first national set of rules from 1899? Or one of the many up dates to these rules that have happened over the years? The rules change and evolve and it is up to players to change with them. If within the rules it is written that clubs may introduce a local rule to allow DMD's in comps then we are in fact playing to the rules as written already.

 

[ColchesterFC]

You are suggesting that a new member could claim that a competition is unfair and the playing field isn't level because he hasn't played as much as his FCs? So what would you propose to correct this problem?

And as it happens new members with higher handicaps DO have their own 'high handicap' competitions

Do the high handicap comps not also allow existing long term members to play as well. Thus giving them an advantage over the newbies? And what about a new member with a low handicap? Perhaps someone that plays off 4 who has just moved clubs.

 

[Imurg]

Let's suspend all Local Rules then.........

As has been said, ban DMD's from comps and an advantage goes to those who know the course and it foibles..

Also, the argument that DMD's are of available to all...if you can afford to play golf then you can afford a DMD.
Whether you want one is up to you but availability isn't the issue as they can be bought for 50 quid...

If you think they give an advantage to the user why don't you use one? Apparently you're putting yourself at a disadvantage....why would anyone do that...?

 

[chrisd]

Chris - I'm not against them in general - and on that I have changed my view. I just think it would be good for closed club competitions to be played with any LR suspended - and so playing to the rules of golf as written. Would have the added advantage in that it would shut folk like me up once and for all.

And I really can't see why that suggestion is a problem. Are 90% of us just too wedded to our DMD that we can't live without them? Pretty sad if that's the case if you ask me. Around your own course you will or should pretty much know your yardages (through use of your DMD the rest of the time you play) - so why are they required for closed comps - what is wrong with playing to the rule as written every so often?

As you know well SILH it just isn't going to happen. The rules of most sports and golf too change with the times. 20 years ago there were no measuring devices around like there is today and the R & A have rather fudged the issue with the need for a local rule once they became available and players wanted to use them. I don't think shutting up people is the issue, you are pretty much on your own with the arguments against, and, not liking them in closed comps is just never going to happen.

What I fundamentally disagree with you on is the "advantage" claim. Everyone playing golf is able to buy a DMD and 99% can use them at their course in comps, if you, or anyone chooses not to own one they themselves are solely responsible for any disadvantage accruing. Affordability is not the issue, I cant afford to join Wentworth, if I could I am sure my game would be better than on my home course and my handicap lower, on that basis I could claim that their members have an unfair advantage in the game over me, that would be nonsense of course! What about someone who cant afford the driver that I can, maybe we should put an upper price limit on driver to level the playing field.

No SILH, arguments of disadvantage are just not right but I personally wouldn't ban phone apps or any device even if you could push a button and the screen message read "use a 7 iron you numpty" because its still down to the player to execute the shot and that , in the final analysis is what golf is really about - not who best at guessing distance!

 

[ger147]

The OP asked my opinion on whether I would use one and if not then why. I have stated my case and the rest of you argue with me and tell me I am wrong. Sorry - it is simply what I believe - that occasionally there is absolutely no harm in playing to the rules as written and how we have traditionally assessed distance.

I play by the rules as written, including ALL local rules at my course and every other course I've played at.

My point is you have no case other than you don't like them. That is no reason to change club competition golf in the UK.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

OK - look I apologise to all for going again where I said at the outset of this that I wouldn't. Because yes - I guess most of you find my position and views wrong and hence boring when repeated.

But I have - this time again - gone on as I get very frustrated that amongst the majority here there does not seem to be the slightest bit of recognition that there is a valid position I am trying to defend, and that my request is actually not unreasonable. The majority view seems simply that DMDs should be allowed at all times, as that is what the majority want so the rest of us just have to come into line, put up with it - and shut up.

But for me on any subject of debate, that is not a position I will accept. Where there is a minority view that is based on absolute strong foundations or a principle (in this case a rule of golf), then I feel that that minority view should be taken seriously - but here on DMDs it is not - it is dismissed out of hand - completely failing to accept there may be a valid alternative stance. There is apparently no compromise on this. What the majority wants - the majority gets.

Ah well - I am disappointed that that attitude prevails.

 

[ger147]

That's because your position is NOT valid, but you seem unable or unwilling to accept that.

Nothing more we can do to try and help you...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That is no reason to change club competition golf in the UK.

There has to be some irony in this statement given a LR has had to be brought in to allow DMDs in club competitions.

Anyway - my piece is said.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's because your position is NOT valid, but you seem unable or unwilling to accept that.

Good grief - it IS - RULE 14-3b says that DMDs are NOT ALLOWED - and are only allowed if there is a LR in place. Why does that not register with some. Use of DMDs is DISCRETIONARY - I want that discretion to be used.

 

[Snelly]

I have got a sky caddie and used it a fair bit when I got it but I've stopped now as I can't be bothered with downloading different courses and I always forget to charge it. I don't think it makes much difference to my scores really. Like all these things, before they existed, people still shot under par so they can't be that essential can they?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Good grief - it IS - RULE 14-3b says that DMDs are NOT ALLOWED - and are only allowed if there is a LR in place. Why does that not register with some. Use of DMDs is DISCRETIONARY - I want that discretion to be used.

No you don't. You want everything to go back to whatever halcyon days you are dreaming of. As I said previously and you failed/chose not to answer what set of rules do you want to play by? Or do you want to make them up to suit yourself? If it is written in the rules of golf that local rules are allowed and these local rules have been introduced then we are already playing by the rules of golf as written. It seems that your stance is "I don't like them or want one so nobody should have one".

 

[HawkeyeMS]

OK - look I apologise to all for going again where I said at the outset of this that I wouldn't. Because yes - I guess most of you find my position and views wrong and hence boring when repeated.

But I have - this time again - gone on as I get very frustrated that amongst the majority here there does not seem to be the slightest bit of recognition that there is a valid position I am trying to defend, and that my request is actually not unreasonable. The majority view seems simply that DMDs should be allowed at all times, as that is what the majority want so the rest of us just have to come into line, put up with it - and shut up.

But for me on any subject of debate, that is not a position I will accept. Where there is a minority view that is based on absolute strong foundations or a principle (in this case a rule of golf), then I feel that that minority view should be taken seriously - but here on DMDs it is not - it is dismissed out of hand - completely failing to accept there may be a valid alternative stance. There is apparently no compromise on this. What the majority wants - the majority gets.

Ah well - I am disappointed that that attitude prevails.

Personally, I like the passion you have for your argument even though I don't agree with it or see any logic in it. Would you have all those clubs who have yardages on the fairway sprinkler heads remove the yardages? What about colour coded flags to tell you if it is front middle or back? Surely these are all things that go against the tradition of guessing the yardage.

At various periods since golf was invented, things have been introduced that have been aimed at getting more accurate yardage information. Marker posts, course planners, yardages on sprinkler heads, colour coded flags and pin sheets have all been introduced to give the golfer more information about how far he has to hit it. DMDs are just the next incarnation of this information.

 

[rosecott]

Golf Shot GPS on my phone. Cracking purchase and only £20

Thankfully my club allows these devices if used only for the GPS component.

I would be interested to know how your club has publicised this - or or has it just evolved by locker room chat that you can use them.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Good grief - it IS - RULE 14-3b says that DMDs are NOT ALLOWED - and are only allowed if there is a LR in place. Why does that not register with some. Use of DMDs is DISCRETIONARY - I want that discretion to be used.

To be fair SilH, discretion is being used when allowing them. You may not agree, but it doesn't change the fact that clubs are using their discretion.