Do you use a range finder/DMD?

[harpo_72]

I bet SILH also uses the modern golf ball and modern clubs (seriously your using a 460cc driver, that is the biggest skill killer in town and ruins the most golf architecture) ... Yardage devices are and have been around a lot longer than you suspect. The technology may be new but no one played anywhere competitively without getting some local knowledge i.e. a caddy. So in away rule 14-3b like most in golf has all ways been circumvented.

Plus why should the amateur not have this facility?
Have you ever seen a pro yardage map?
Have you ever seen their Pin position maps?

You can say what you like about DMDs but bottom line is the player has to get it there, they don't hit the ball for you ... which is why the 460cc driver is more destructive.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No you don't. You want everything to go back to whatever halcyon days you are dreaming of. As I said previously and you failed/chose not to answer what set of rules do you want to play by? Or do you want to make them up to suit yourself? If it is written in the rules of golf that local rules are allowed and these local rules have been introduced then we are already playing by the rules of golf as written. It seems that your stance is "I don't like them or want one so nobody should have one".

Local rules can be suspended temporarily if a club wishes to do so. I like them fine btw - and I'm not wishing them to be banned.

 

[chrisd]

OK - look I apologise to all for going again where I said at the outset of this that I wouldn't. Because yes - I guess most of you find my position and views wrong and hence boring when repeated.

But I have - this time again - gone on as I get very frustrated that amongst the majority here there does not seem to be the slightest bit of recognition that there is a valid position I am trying to defend, and that my request is actually not unreasonable. The majority view seems simply that DMDs should be allowed at all times, as that is what the majority want so the rest of us just have to come into line, put up with it - and shut up.

But for me on any subject of debate, that is not a position I will accept. Where there is a minority view that is based on absolute strong foundations or a principle (in this case a rule of golf), then I feel that that minority view should be taken seriously - but here on DMDs it is not - it is dismissed out of hand - completely failing to accept there may be a valid alternative stance. There is apparently no compromise on this. What the majority wants - the majority gets.

Ah well - I am disappointed that that attitude prevails.

I would hope SILH that I am a very reasonable person but on this issue see absolutely no merit in your argument and I have not seen this argument put forward or agreed with by any other poster no matter how often the subject has arisen. I have seen arguments about banning them propounded by some for various reasons but never for the argument that they give an unfair advantage and the very fact that the R & A allow the rule to be disregarded just by posting a local rule is absolutely central to the argument that the rule on this issue isn't cast in stone as are most rules.

I wish that I could acknowledge your position on this matter but really, many reads on the many times this issue is aired, can see any reason to think that yours is a "valid alternative stance" - sorry!

 

[Imurg]

So try and get things changed at your Club.......

Good luck with that one!

Discretion is used on this local rule - there are clubs that don't allow DMD's...
But the vast majority don't agree with you.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Personally, I like the passion you have for your argument even though I don't agree with it or see any logic in it. Would you have all those clubs who have yardages on the fairway sprinkler heads remove the yardages? What about colour coded flags to tell you if it is front middle or back? Surely these are all things that go against the tradition of guessing the yardage.

At various periods since golf was invented, things have been introduced that have been aimed at getting more accurate yardage information. Marker posts, course planners, yardages on sprinkler heads, colour coded flags and pin sheets have all been introduced to give the golfer more information about how far he has to hit it. DMDs are just the next incarnation of this information.

Thankyou Sir - a bit of relief from the hammering

My position on them in club competitions is simply based on the fact that from time to time we find ourselves in unusual positions on the course where such as course planners, yardage markers on sprinkler heads etc as you have listed, are of little or no use to the player.

Typically this is where we stick a wayward tee shot on the wrong fairway. One of the penalties of doing this was that - being 'out of position' we could not simply rely on our normal distances and course guides/distance markers, and had to try and work out how far we had to go - and that could be very difficult to do or could take up a lot of time (so we often tended not to do it). Put a DMD in my hand and that element of penalty for the poor tee shot has gone. As these situations are fairly infrequent over a 'season' such things tend not to matter - but in a one round competition it could make a big difference to the outcome.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Discretion is used on this local rule - there are clubs that don't allow DMD's...

Thanks Imurg

So why does my view receive such absolute opposition and total dismissal on this forum when it already happens?

Shows that clearly I am not alone in my views - which is a relief - and it is perhaps good for others here to know that.

 

[Albanach]

I have a SkyCaddie SG5 and having recently joined a new club in Ireland I found it very helpful but am considering getting rid of it (if anyone is interested let me know) as I very rarely play away from my home courses and feel pretty comfortable with the landmarks and yardage markers etc.
When playing at my home course in Scotland I was almost disappointed in myself that I had resorted to using it, as I have been a member there for 21 years and like another user said I used to know and trust clubbing by eye and sometimes it does seem like they take the 'feel' away from the shot. Might sound daft and is obviously not the case for every shot but it's hard to describe. The one thing they are very good for is if it's an open course and you end up on another holes fairway where there are no aids to help you.

 

[chrisd]

Thankyou Sir - a bit of relief from the hammering

My position on them in club competitions is simply based on the fact that from time to time we find ourselves in unusual positions on the course where such as course planners, yardage markers on sprinkler heads etc as you have listed, are of little or no use to the player.

Typically this is where we stick a wayward tee shot on the wrong fairway. One of the penalties of doing this was that - being 'out of position' we could not simply rely on our normal distances and course guides/distance markers, and had to try and work out how far we had to go - and that could be very difficult to do or could take up a lot of time (so we often tended not to do it). Put a DMD in my hand and that element of penalty for the poor tee shot has gone. As these situations are fairly infrequent over a 'season' such things tend not to matter - but in a one round competition it could make a big difference to the outcome.

........... but you seem to chop and change your argument. One post you say that you're against them solely because they give an unfair advantage over people who don't have them as the reason to ban them, and then you make the case that it makes the game simpler because it takes the guess work out when the player is marooned in an unfamiliar place on the course.

Which is it to be, or is it more than one reason?

 

[Imurg]

You're not on your own...
Just in very, very small minority.

I couldn't even name clubs that don't allow them, there's that few....

 

[chrisd]

You're not on your own...
Just in very, very small minority.

I couldn't even name clubs that don't allow them, there's that few....

Sunningdale isn't mapped for Skycaddie and doesn't allow them as far as I recall

 

[3565]

It would be interesting to see a club committee nominate a monthly medal as a none DMD event, and see how many of the members who use DMDs enter? And what their scores would be in comparison?

 

[USER1999]

You're not on your own...
Just in very, very small minority.

I couldn't even name clubs that don't allow them, there's that few....

Probably courses with a caddy program.

 

[harpo_72]

Sunningdale isn't mapped for Skycaddie and doesn't allow them as far as I recall

Probably cos its rubbish and if you knew the yardages you would rip it up ... or its trying to protect the 3 million stroke savers it needs to sell

 

[harpo_72]

Probably courses with a caddy program.

caddy program ... isn't that just a manual DMD? (which relies on the honesty of the golfer)

 

[mab]

Thankyou Sir - a bit of relief from the hammering

My position on them in club competitions is simply based on the fact that from time to time we find ourselves in unusual positions on the course where such as course planners, yardage markers on sprinkler heads etc as you have listed, are of little or no use to the player.

Typically this is where we stick a wayward tee shot on the wrong fairway. One of the penalties of doing this was that - being 'out of position' we could not simply rely on our normal distances and course guides/distance markers, and had to try and work out how far we had to go - and that could be very difficult to do or could take up a lot of time (so we often tended not to do it). Put a DMD in my hand and that element of penalty for the poor tee shot has gone. As these situations are fairly infrequent over a 'season' such things tend not to matter - but in a one round competition it could make a big difference to the outcome.

The fundamental difference between your opinion and mine is, essentially, that you believe being able to eyeball a distance accurately should be part of a golfer's toolset on competition day. This takes into account a course architect's ability to confuse golfers, that yardage markers are often out, that course guides can be inadequately detailed, etc. so eyeballing a distance (let's assume you're playing an invitation day at a first time course so don't have local knowledge) is of paramount importance.

I understand your opinion, but I disagree with it and see no logic to it... and I also think it puts certain people at a huge disadvantage such as those with failing eyesight.

In your example above, where I've blocked my drive onto a neighbouring fairway, being able to eyeball the distance to the green is not, in my opinion, golfing skill. Golfing skill comes after knowing what distance I have. If I know I have 197 to the pin... but have to start the shot down the incorrect fairway, gaining huge elevation while it draws sharply left over the massive oak trees guarding the green from my line in... execution of that tremendously difficult shot is golfing skill.

If I pull that shot off, what a great achievement. If I pull the shot off but land 15 yards short because I mis-calculated the distance, that is massively disappointing because I executed the golf bit perfectly... I just misread the distance, perhaps because my eyesight isn't all that good from 200 yards out.

However, you have your thoughts and I don't see you changing them. Good luck to you.

 

[duncan mackie]

Where there is a minority view that is based on absolute strong foundations or a principle (in this case a rule of golf), then I feel that that minority view should be taken seriously ......

Ah well - I am disappointed that that attitude prevails.

Please show me any rule of golf that prohibits a player from being advised of the distance he has to go to his target.

Just one to support your 'principle'

 

[rosecott]

Sunningdale isn't mapped for Skycaddie and doesn't allow them as far as I recall

It is mapped for Snooper.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It is mapped for Snooper.

And Garmin

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Please show me any rule of golf that prohibits a player from being advised of the distance he has to go to his target.

Just one to support your 'principle'

Surely there are rules that define who can and who cannot advise him of distance to target, and rule 14-3b prohibits him using a DMD for that purpose unless permitted by a LR.

 

[USER1999]

Surely there are rules that define who can and who cannot advise him of distance to target, and rule 14-3b prohibits him using a DMD for that purpose unless permitted by a LR.

Was this rule, and provision for a l/r not put in so that the pros can't use a dmd?