Do 3/4 handicap comps favour good golfers too much?

[ColchesterFC]

Where did the 3/4 handicap rule for competitions come from? I suspect that it was a scratch golfer that came up with it as it seems it favours the good golfers and penalises the higher handicappers.

I play in stableford competitions with the 3/4 rule in place and off an 18 handicap this costs me 4 shots and leaves me trying to play to 14. We have golfers off +1, scratch and 1 who don't lose any shots with the 3/4 rule and people off 28 who lose 7 shots. As a result if everyone was to play to their handicap I would shoot 32 points, the guy off the 28 handicap would shoot 29 points but the guys off +1 or scratch would shoot 36 points.

I appreciate that the rule helps to eliminate bandits but surely there is a better way.

 

[fundy]

I understand playing off 3/4 handicaps in team comps where its say best 2 scores from 4 to count (to negate the more in out nature of the higher handicapper where there bad holes arent penalised), if its individual golf then it should be off full handicap, for me there is no reason for it to be 3/4s (as per singles matchplay these days)

 

[bladeplayer]

if its individual golf then it should be off full handicap, for me there is no reason for it to be 3/4s (QUOTE]

totaly agree

 

[Kellfire]

All the stats prove that even off full handicaps, the lower handicap will win most of the time. It should always be full handicaps.

 

[USER1999]

Pairs Better ball is 3/4. This does make sense to me. Full allowance would be a massacre. Higher handicapped players tend to be inconsistent, and squander their shots in handfuls, not dribs and drabs. Par par, treble, etc. 3/4 takes this into account.

Singles is full allowance, fine. Apparently.

That said, in the winter, with a shortened course, this also leads to a culling of the low guys.

 

[duncan mackie]

I appreciate that the rule helps to eliminate bandits but surely there is a better way.

Doing this makes absolutely nothing to 'eliminate bandits' - if anything it's the opposite; they can consistently shoot 34-36 points without looking obvious, when others like you will make 32 on a good day.

The other think is that such competitions are by definition Non Qualifying, which in itself attracts bandits because they don't risk getting cut!

It has been suggested that there are organisers who deliberately do it because they know it will attract a larger field (of bandits) - and to a degree this has been proved with BB and AM/AM format Open competitions.

 

[duncan mackie]

Pairs Better ball is 3/4. This does make sense to me. Full allowance would be a massacre.....

with the current basis to handicapping this isn't the case, and the one countries Golf Union that has implemented full allowance for 4BBB has shown no evidence of massacre at all - it's simply removed the huge advantage that lower players have with this currently.

CONGU is looking to move to 90% but is concerned with the reaction, rather than any adverse competitive implications - the rubbish spouted over moving singles to full was incredible (and sometimes still is)

Our club league restricts the number of Cat 1 players in a team (it's played 4BBB) because of the inherent advantage that would be available to clubs soley on the basis of the number of available cat 1 players.

A review of all the 4BBB knockout competition results at our club over the last few years shows that the lower handicap teams have a significantly better record per match - and by the time you get to Senior golf, where there are few (if any) improving golfers, the lower handicappers really dominate in matches and knockouts.

 

[scratch]

If a 28hcp has a good day and plays 10% better than his handicap, he will shoot 39 points. If a scratch golfer plays 10% better than handicap, he will score 36 points.

That's why 3/4 difference is fairer.

 

[fundy]

If a 28hcp has a good day and plays 10% better than his handicap, he will shoot 39 points. If a scratch golfer plays 10% better than handicap, he will score 36 points.

That's why 3/4 difference is fairer.

Wow, seems we are going to go down the "I can make stats work how I want to route" lol

If a scratch golfer shoots his handicap off 3/4 he gets 36 points, a 28 capper off 3/4 gets 29 points - how can that ever be right unless you think there is a completely inherent flaw in the handicap system

 

[duncan mackie]

If a 28hcp has a good day and plays 10% better than his handicap, he will shoot 39 points. If a scratch golfer plays 10% better than handicap, he will score 36 points.

That's why 3/4 difference is fairer.

but this is matchplay not stableford and making 2 more points on a hole doesn't win 2 holes etc and you haven't taken into account the probability of the various outcomes (the handicaps give different probabilities)

 

[ColchesterFC]

But if both play 10% better than their handicap in a competition off 3/4 then the scratch golfer will score 36 points while the 28 handicapper will only score 32.

 

[scratch]

but this is matchplay not stableford and making 2 more points on a hole doesn't win 2 holes etc and you haven't taken into account the probability of the various outcomes (the handicaps give different probabilities)

There is no mention of matchplay in the OP, it only talks about stableford competitions. And my point is that a scratch player is hardly ever going to come in with 40+ points whereas a 28hcp will probably do it several times a season.

 

[thecraw]

Golf is geared towards the high handicap golfer period. I can shoot a 27 on a hole and it comes down to a double bogie. I can then finish with another 16 blows and again it comes down to a double. If in between I play steady golf I can hit buffer due to this incredible rule.

How many 3 handicap golfers do you see in monthly medals shoot net 58????

 

[USER1999]

Stroke play should always be full allowance. That's the whole point of having a handicap.

 

[duncan mackie]

There is no mention of matchplay in the OP, it only talks about stableford competitions. And my point is that a scratch player is hardly ever going to come in with 40+ points whereas a 28hcp will probably do it several times a season.

my apologies for the hasty response - you are correct that the OP referenced stableford and only later posts moved into the matchplay environment.

as we are all handicapped to stableford now, the handicap basis for such competition is self evident.

equally the advantage to the lower handicap player is significant in medal play now, for the same reason ie we are handicapped to stableford not medal play. Play an event over 36 or 72 holes medal and the higher handicappers are completely scuppered - so few events are designed this way for those players

my apologies again

 

[scratch]

my apologies again

no problem duncan :thup:

 

[G1BB0]

full handicap always, sod this 3/4 etc lark. So your off scratch, 5 or 10 and I am off 22. If it was the low guys winning all the time then the high handicap would say sod this I aint bothering as I have no chance or worse case doesnt play any comps at all, loses his handicap and becomes a casual/nomad. Its the guys who win the odd comp or are teeing off on the 1st off 20-28 that eventually (for some) get down to scratch or single figures/mid teens

Golf is unique in this way and we should embrace it not moan about it.

** G1BB0's waiver - if I get to single figures which is a big if I didnt post this ever and I go for 3/4 all the way

 

[Val]

I disagree golf is geared towards high handicappers and 3/4 in Stableford is not right but would say no one should get 2 shots on a hole.

 

[scratch]

To all you high handicappers......get off your lazy arses and start practicing

:rofl:

 

[G1BB0]

we do! everyone has to start somewhere