Deliberately affecting ball in motion

[salfordlad]

Yeah, i agree, but what if a player specifically asks for it not to be moved to help increase the chances if thier ball going in.

I still think its not very clearly written...

LOL, I keep saying it is not relevant and after you say you agree you continue with "but what if....". While there are rules that treat a ball and a ball-marker consistently, there are others that treat them like chalk and cheese - and this raises a range of practical challenges on the course, even for those with decent rules knowledge and intent on doing the right thing. I agree with your view that altered words in the Official Guide could help, but there is no doubt in my mind that it would require a fair few additional words to cover these situations.
I think this is an excellent issue for discussion that you have brought to this forum.

 

[salfordlad]

Yeah that is very clear, but the question was can a player demand another player doesn't move it?

If a player asked for a ball to be marked, all very well, but if a player asked for a ball to be left... penalties... is it the same for a marker?

A player can demand all they like, that alters nothing. Anyone else can trump that demand.

 

[sweaty sock]

LOL, I keep saying it is not relevant and after you say you agree you continue with "but what if....". While there are rules that treat a ball and a ball-marker consistently, there are others that treat them like chalk and cheese - and this raises a range of practical challenges on the course, even for those with decent rules knowledge and intent on doing the right thing. I agree with your view that altered words in the Official Guide could help, but there is no doubt in my mind that it would require a fair few additional words to cover these situations.
I think this is an excellent issue for discussion that you have brought to this forum.

Thanks for that, I was unclear wether I was missing something! I'll just leave it as an unresolved situation.

 

[Steven Rules]

Yeah that is very clear, but the question was can a player demand another player doesn't move it?

If a player asked for a ball to be marked, all very well, but if a player asked for a ball to be left... penalties... is it the same for a marker?

No and no.

 

[sweaty sock]

No and no.

This has got to go down as the least informative thread ever...

 

[Colin L]

Yeah that is very clear, but the question was can a player demand another player doesn't move it?

If a player asked for a ball to be marked, all very well, but if a player asked for a ball to be left... penalties... is it the same for a marker?

The clarity of the rule leads manifestly to the clear conclusion that a player can evidently ask/demand as much as he likes but another player can require him to move the marker.

 

[Colin L]

This has got to go down as the least informative thread ever...

Aye well, there's nane as deef as winna hear.

 

[sweaty sock]

Aye well, there's nane as deef as winna hear.

Ok so answer with one word, "yes" or "no".

Ive got a 6 foot putt. Your ball marker is near my line 6 inches short of the cup, on the low side. You ask if i would like your marker moved.

I clearly state "No, please dont move the marker, where it is could help my ball go in".

You agree not to move the marker.

Are any penalties incurred?

 

[salfordlad]

Aye well, there's nane as deef as winna hear.

Thanks for that, I was unclear wether I was missing something! I'll just leave it as an unresolved situation.

LOL, there's nothing unresolved here. I think I see why your sock is sweaty.

Ok so answer with one word, "yes" or "no".

Ive got a 6 foot putt. Your ball marker is near my line 6 inches short of the cup, on the low side. You ask if i would like your marker moved.

I clearly state "No, please dont move the marker, where it is could help my ball go in".

You agree not to move the marker.

Are any penalties incurred?

No, no, no, no, no, no. (That is still a one word answer!)

 

[sweaty sock]

Thank you.

 

[Steven Rules]

I clearly state "No, please dont move the marker, where it is could help my ball go in".

You agree not to move the marker.

Are any penalties incurred?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

At the risk of (a) prolonging this thread and (b) stating that which is obvious by now and (c) starting another lap of the circle....

If I am the third member of this playing group and I subsequently tell salfordlad that I DO want him to move his marker - even though you do not want him to move it and he has reached an agreement with you that he won't move it - then he must move it or else he will incur the general penalty.

 

[Colin L]

Ok so answer with one word, "yes" or "no".

Ive got a 6 foot putt. Your ball marker is near my line 6 inches short of the cup, on the low side. You ask if i would like your marker moved.

I clearly state "No, please dont move the marker, where it is could help my ball go in".

You agree not to move the marker.

Are any penalties incurred?

No, but that's a different question to the previous one.

By now you've been given more than enough information about the rule to be able to apply it to whatever situation you dream up.

 

[Swango1980]

No, but that's a different question to the previous one.

By now you've been given more than enough information about the rule to be able to apply it to whatever situation you dream up.

I'm not sure if it is overly different to the OP? It just has more detail. Both scenarios still assume the player is explicitly having the ball marker left in its position as it may help the putt. I just think it was a case sweaty sock was not fully sure of the definitive answer, until salfordlad replied in Post 29 to the rephrased question.

 

[salfordlad]

At the risk of (a) prolonging this thread and (b) stating that which is obvious by now and (c) starting another lap of the circle....

If I am the third member of this playing group and I subsequently tell salfordlad that I DO want him to move his marker - even though you do not want him to move it and he has reached an agreement with you that he won't move it - then he must move it or else he will incur the general penalty.

Agree. 15.3c empowers other players to veto such an agreement.