David Cameron

[Deleted member 18588]

Do you think Scots care about that subtlety - they will be not unreasonably perhaps ask why he is addressing the UK when he tells everyone that the decision is Scotlands? But if he IS addressing the UK did he detail the UK government position on 'EU membership for Scotland' and 'Sterling Zone' following a YES - or it's position on 'increasing devolved powers to Scotland' and 'changes to the Barnett funding formula' following a NO.

I'll go listen to Channel 4 news

As those are post independence issues they are for the YES campaign to provide a definitive answer. At present all they seem to have done is to talk about what they would like to happen rather than what will necessarily happen.

Until a formal request for currency union is made there can be no answer from the UK Government.

 

[Andy808]

If they really want the yes vote to work they should open the vote up the everyone in the UK.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As those are post independence issues they are for the YES campaign to provide a definitive answer. At present all they seem to have done is to talk about what they would like to happen rather than what will necessarily happen.

Until a formal request for currency union is made there can be no answer from the UK Government.

The first two are post a YES vote the latter two are post a NO vote and all four are not things that the YES campaign can possibly provide a definitive answer to at the moment because they are decisions that ONLY the rUK government can make. The only 'party' that can give any definitive statement prior to the referendum on the rUK position on these matters is the UK government. The YES campaign can only PREDICT what an rUK government is likely to do - they can't determine rUK policy - only the UK government can tell us what that would be. But they are silent.

The NO/BT campaign is busy-busy demanding answers from the YES campaign to a myriad and many 'what-if' questions. So the questions to the NO/BT campaign on these four questions is 'what-if the vote is YES'. Never mind that the Scottish electorate deserve answers to these questions, as an income tax and council tax payer living in England I want to know the answers from my government.

Speak up Davey boy. I'm listening.

 

[chrisd]

Yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps David Cameron cares as much as 99% of England

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The first two are post a YES vote the latter two are post a NO vote and all four are not things that the YES campaign can possibly provide a definitive answer to at the moment because they are decisions that ONLY the rUK government can make. The only 'party' that can give any definitive statement prior to the referendum on the rUK position on these matters is the UK government. The YES campaign can only PREDICT what an rUK government is likely to do - they can't determine rUK policy - only the UK government can tell us what that would be. But they are silent.

The NO/BT campaign is busy-busy demanding answers from the YES campaign to a myriad and many 'what-if' questions. So the questions to the NO/BT campaign on these four questions is 'what-if the vote is YES'. Never mind that the Scottish electorate deserve answers to these questions, as an income tax and council tax payer living in England I want to know the answers from my government.

Speak up Davey boy. I'm listening.

Why should the UK Government state its position on purely hypothetical situations which will ultimately depend upon whatever questions an independent Scottish Government might ask? After all why should there be any change to the status quo in the event of a NO vote.

When negotiating it is generally inadvisable to state your final position at the outset

 

[Imurg]

The first two are post a YES vote the latter two are post a NO vote and all four are not things that the YES campaign can possibly provide a definitive answer to at the moment because they are decisions that ONLY the rUK government can make. The only 'party' that can give any definitive statement prior to the referendum on the rUK position on these matters is the UK government. The YES campaign can only PREDICT what an rUK government is likely to do - they can't determine rUK policy - only the UK government can tell us what that would be. But they are silent.

The NO/BT campaign is busy-busy demanding answers from the YES campaign to a myriad and many 'what-if' questions. So the questions to the NO/BT campaign on these four questions is 'what-if the vote is YES'. Never mind that the Scottish electorate deserve answers to these questions, as an income tax and council tax payer living in England I want to know the answers from my government.

Speak up Davey boy. I'm listening.

But it's all hypothetical.
The Yes side can't say for certain what's going to happen so it stands to reason that the No side are in the same position.
rUK! as you put it, can't give you a definitive statement on anything because it doesn't exist and will not unless there is a Yes vote.
How rUK reacts to an independent Scotland could change depending on many variables - but until both exist there's no way of knowing any outcome
The Yes campaign has to convince the voters that their way is the way forward.All the No's have to do is cast enough doubt on the Yes's and they will win. But without cast iron guarantees, which can't be given as the body that can give them doesn't exist to give them, how can the Yes's win?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But it's all hypothetical.
The Yes side can't say for certain what's going to happen so it stands to reason that the No side are in the same position.
rUK! as you put it, can't give you a definitive statement on anything because it doesn't exist and will not unless there is a Yes vote.
How rUK reacts to an independent Scotland could change depending on many variables - but until both exist there's no way of knowing any outcome
The Yes campaign has to convince the voters that their way is the way forward.All the No's have to do is cast enough doubt on the Yes's and they will win. But without cast iron guarantees, which can't be given as the body that can give them doesn't exist to give them, how can the Yes's win?

And in the same way an independent Scotland does not currently exist and the YES campaign is being asked for answers to what can in the same way only be hypothetical questions. The UK government knows what the YES campaign would want in the matters of 'EU membership and membership of a sterling zone' so what is the question they are struggling to understand. On the two questions relating to post a NO vote - the UK government must have some idea of what it might do - but it's not telling the Scottish voters. Why not? Both the Barnett formula and devolving of further powers to the Scottish parliament are things completely and solely in the power of Westminster. If it can't answer 'what-if' question as around a YES vote it must by definition be able to answer questions around a NO vote - as the NO vote leaves as it's starting point the status quo. But does the status quo remain - and if so for how long.

As a voter in England maybe I want to see a move towards equalisation of per head central government funding/expenditure - and in the current economic climate this isn't going to come around by the funding down here being increased - it can only come about through a cut in Scotland's grant. So is that going to happen? What does the UK government have in mind? If no change then Davey boy please just actually say 'no change'. More poweras devolved to Scotland - if no change from current situation is currently what is planned then say 'no change'

What is impossible about that?

 

[SocketRocket]

I dont know if I am a typical English person (I am speaking on behalf of my country not rUK) I am sick and tired of being berated and demonised by those that want to make a case against the 'old enemy/Edwards army' as a reason why Scotland will be better off without us. I have become weary with the arguments and demonisation of our race and just want it over and done with. I find that most English are keeping neutral on the issue and leaving to the Scots to decide for themselves but would feel a lot more comfortable with it if the continual harping back to historic prejudices and racist (Anti-English is actually racist) didn't seem to be biting the hand that feeds you.

 

[Captainron]

I don't get this. Do the Scots want to feel more Scottish by having an independent Scotland? Most of you north of the border are fiercely patriotic and I love that. Being proud of where you come from is part if who you are and you should always keep that close to your heart. I just don't think that the last couple of hundred years of economic and governmental ties can be severed as easily as many people think.

 

[SocketRocket]

I don't get this. Do the Scots want to feel more Scottish by having an independent Scotland? Most of you north of the border are fiercely patriotic and I love that. Being proud of where you come from is part if who you are and you should always keep that close to your heart. I just don't think that the last couple of hundred years of economic and governmental ties can be severed as easily as many people think.

So being proud of being English is also good to keep close to your heart? I just feel that this sentiment holds true to anyone but us.

 

[Foxholer]

David Cameron has just announced a Scarecrow has won a Top Industry Award for being ' outstanding in his field'

Thats my thoughts on him

That'll be a Tattie-bogle for the 'Yes' voters then!

 

[Fish]

 

[Dodger]

Guy on Channel 4 news last night................"Of course I want Scotland to stay, Its the most beautiful part of England" .

Commentator said Britain, you mean Britain, the guy seemed confused and then corrected himself......clueless but I am not exactly surprised by it.

Cameron is a fud, he seemed to be banging on about FREEDOM! Supporting the No? Sounded more like supporting the Yes in a sly way.

 

[MegaSteve]

Guy on Channel 4 news last night................"Of course I want Scotland to stay, Its the most beautiful part of England" .

Commentator said Britain, you mean Britain, the guy seemed confused and then corrected himself......clueless but I am not exactly surprised by it.

Believe the most common response south of the wall has been "will it make a blind bit of difference to me?"

Does anyone north of the wall [with a vote] truly believe 'Call me Dave' should have come to you on bended knee begging? Or is it just Salmond himself that thinks this...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Believe the most common response south of the wall has been "will it make a blind bit of difference to me?"

Does anyone north of the wall [with a vote] truly believe 'Call me Dave' should have come to you on bended knee begging? Or is it just Salmond himself that thinks this...

Davey boy should go north,. face the baying mob, and bang the drum loud for the UK and the BT campaign. No-one is asking for any knee-bending - to the contrary they want him to stand tall for the UK.

And I south of the border want to know if it would make any difference to me? So for instance I want to know whether or not the UK government is in principle for or against a 'sterling zone' if Scotland came asking. They must know.

 

[Sweep]

I'll put money on him not addressing any of the key issues that are in the sole remit of Westminster and as such not things that the Scottish YES or NO campaigns can guarantee.

He'll wrap himself up in patriotic Union Jack stuff - what we've achieved in the past (some OK some not so OK even without too much revisionism) - 100 anniversary of WWI - brave boys of the 42nd Highlanders anyone? (my grandfathers regiment) THE 2012 OLYMPIC GAMES!!!! (let's hear it). And it's really all good stuff - but irrelevant to what happens in the future.

Wouldn't it be nice/fun/cruel to see him standing on a soap box on Glasgow Green or in George Square!

And Salmond doesn't wrap himself up in Scottish patriotic stuff?
And it would be nice to see him on Glasgow Green or George Square - for those who want to hear the Prime Minister's views on what for those citizens are important matters. While I do understand the frustration felt towards politicians nowadays, I have never quite got this thing about deriding them in public. Personally, I would rather hear what they have to say and then make a reasoned decision on who to vote for.

 

[Foxholer]

Davey boy should go north,. face the baying mob, and bang the drum loud for the UK and the BT campaign. No-one is asking for any knee-bending - to the contrary they want him to stand tall for the UK.

And I south of the border want to know if it would make any difference to me? So for instance I want to know whether or not the UK government is in principle for or against a 'sterling zone' if Scotland came asking. They must know.

I'm sure the question of the pros and cons (ha!) of making that 'plea' in either country was considered. I suspect that there'll be some sort of excuse found for a trip North some time in the future, where another appeal will be made.

He's not going to come out with possible ways to manage a 'Yes' result at this stage. That would be admitting that the 'Yes' option is workable/reasonable (which it is imo) in the same way as, going into an election, admitting that working in a coalition was reasonable. Easy way to lose a great chunk of votes from those 'swayers' who know that status-quo works, however badly, but are afraid that a 'Yes' would be too much of a leap!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm sure the question of the pros and cons (ha!) of making that 'plea' in either country was considered. I suspect that there'll be some sort of excuse found for a trip North some time in the future, where another appeal will be made.

I read this morning that the Westminster cabinet is meeting ion Aberdeen on the 24th Feb. Interesting. I'll have to ask my brother who lives in Aberdeen what he's going to vote. If he says he'll vote yes - and he is a senior civil engineer in Scottish company doing global business - then a YES is a distinct possibility.

On whether DC should state position of UK - you are of course correct. Any statement of UK position in respect of what-if YES will be tacit admission that a YES outcome is possible. But being a bystander to the referendum vote he should though be able to admit a YES is possible (because it is) and explain to the Scottish voters what he'd do. As it is he is not providing the electorate with important information that could inform their decision. Is that democratically an OK thing to do - telling the Scottish electorate that though he knows the answers to some open questions he's not going to tell them - a bit of yah boo sucks - I'm not telling politics that.

Anyway - I'm sure Scottish voters can see that he is playing games. And if that is what he wants to do then so be it.

 

[Foxholer]

Ha!

Yes. the hypocrisy of politics always seem too obvious. No wonder so many distrust them!

The Press and other media though are a different, potentially more dangerous, lot. They (believe they can) wrap their attitudes up in legitimate reporting/journalism. As a supporter, though sometime critic, of the House of Lords, it always amuses me when (the mainly left) press hypocritically criticise HofL as 'unelected'!

 

[One Planer]

Here's a question:

Let's say Scotland vote yes to independence, but after much negotiation there is no 'Sterling Zone' and only the only option for them remaining is to join the Eurozone and the Euro. Would the people who voted yes still be happy?

If all the issues that are currently up for discussion weren't settled amicably or to what Mr Salmond expects would the people who voted yes still be happy?

After the yes vote has been cast and people find out things aren't as rosy as they thought or were lead to believe they 'could' be, what then?

At what point does having an independent Scotland become more about pride than economic and national (Scottish) stability?