Creating a ramp with a Spurk golf mat.

[The Squirrel]

I’d agree with Ori. There is nothing in any rule quoted by anyone so far saying that the mat must be exactly parallel to the ground. I’m going to take it from that that no such rule exists, unless someone can produce one that says exactly that, in which case I’ll accept it.

Attempting to wedge in any other rule regarding not attempting to “improve lie” or “gain advantage” doesn’t make sense either. You’ve literally picked up the ball from the bog it’s sitting in, and placed it sitting on a clean perfect lie on top of a fuzzy mat AND ARE ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED TO DO THIS. That’s the very definition of improving a lie and gaining an advantage, whatever angle the mat is . Clearly then, any local rule allowing use of mats overrides those other requirements.

Fundamentally there is nothing at all in any rule stopping you from using the mat in a sensible way by positioning it so that you can play the ball where it is sitting. Therefore you can do it. The mental gymnastics some are managing to try and create one are impressive though.

 

[PaulMdj]

Is there an "approved/conforming mat list" somewhere?

Not as far as I’m aware, hence the confusion.

I’ve attached below a picture of another type (supposedly the most popular) of mat and this has a recess inbetween the lugs to help when playing of a slope.

I’d argue that is even more dodgy than someone putting the Spurk mat in lobsided to make the ball stay.

 

[Backache]

I can and frequently do use a Spurk mat with the lugs in the ground at different levels to enable to be placed on. There is nothing in that rule that states I should not..The lugs are not always in the ground anyway when for instance the f=ground is frozen or there are rocks under the surface.

There is nothing that I can see in the rule to state that you cannot position the mat to prevent the ball rolling off. and usually in rules either you can do something or they state that you cannot. For instance in the rule about the mats they specifically prohibit you using an anchoring tee peg to play your ball off.

In my own case the point is rather moot as I don't play anything other than friendly comps when winter conditions and mats are in place.

 

[Swango1980]

So, I was involved in this chat on the other thread, and I see this one has taken off. I haven't gone through all comments, but to summarise my take:

I have a Spurk mat, which is hard and flat. If the mat is even at a slight angle, the ball rolls off. Therefore, every time I place the mat, I make sure the mat is flat, even if the turf underneath is at an angle. This is not to gain an advantage, it is simply to keep the ball from rolling off.

I do not agree that the mat MUST be placed so that it is parallel to the ground. I have never seen this written anywhere. And if that was a condition, I would then need to find a very flat piece of ground. That could be quite some distance away, and could increase the time to play a round of golf significantly. Especially on hilly courses. And for what purpose? Because some people think it is against the spirit of the game to have the mat flattened, yet they are happy for me to play from a different spot on the course where the actual ground is flat anyway!?

The cheap mats probably hold the ball better, even if they are on a slight slope. And I know sone people place the ball on the hole to keep it stationary.

As for arguments that "it improves your lie". Well, we are within the "preferred lies" period, are we not?

 

[clubchamp98]

I think the fact were discussing it shows the rule is not as clear as it should be.

We’re having comps but no GP cards.

So think it needs to be clarified

 

[Swango1980]

I think the fact were discussing it shows the rule is not as clear as it should be.

We’re having comps but no GP cards.

So think it needs to be clarified

Or the fact that too many golfers are reading far too much into it?

I've no idea if there is a list of conforming mats. But assuming all the mats we use are conforming, then unless someone is using it in a really unusual way, it is fine. And if you are in a competition, and are really unsure, just ask your competition secretary to give you some comfort.

Note, I also line my mat up with the target. I'd argue that is more of an advantage than flattening the mat to stop the ball rolling off. Is there a rule to say I cannot do this?

 

[The Squirrel]

I think the fact were discussing it shows the rule is not as clear as it should be.

We’re having comps but no GP cards.

So think it needs to be clarified

Not really.

This entire thread (both of them) seems to be you unhappy that there is clearly absolutely no rule prohibiting placing a mat not entirely flush/parallel with the ground (placing a mat exactly flush isn’t even possible unless the ground is perfectly level to the molecular level). You have imagined a rule that is simply not there.

The rule book can’t list all the rules that DON’T exist in order to clarify that they don’t. It is an infinite list.

 

[PaulMdj]

I think the fact were discussing it shows the rule is not as clear as it should be.

We’re having comps but no GP cards.

So think it needs to be clarified

We have comps and no GP cards and this point has not been raised at my place, maybe the issue is your members looking for something that isn’t there.

 

[rulie]

I can and frequently do use a Spurk mat with the lugs in the ground at different levels to enable to be placed on. There is nothing in that rule that states I should not..The lugs are not always in the ground anyway when for instance the f=ground is frozen or there are rocks under the surface.

There is nothing that I can see in the rule to state that you cannot position the mat to prevent the ball rolling off. and usually in rules either you can do something or they state that you cannot. For instance in the rule about the mats they specifically prohibit you using an anchoring tee peg to play your ball off.

In my own case the point is rather moot as I don't play anything other than friendly comps when winter conditions and mats are in place.

That makes perfect sense!

 

[rulie]

Out of curiosity, how many clubs actually implement MLR E-12? Or do clubs use some other invented local rule?

 

[Crazyface]

Most, if not all, at my place use the spark mat level with the ground with the exception of one bloke. He's a lovely fella, but poor at golf. He hits it 120 if that with his driver with the weirdest swing ever. He tilts the spurk up so that his ball is projected upwards. Surely there is more that just me that has noticed this? But I'm sure no one really cares. Does it really matter in winter golf? Previous comments excepted. Lol

 

[PaulMdj]

Out of curiosity, how many clubs actually implement MLR E-12? Or do clubs use some other invented local rule?

We implemented it and had sent by email and displayed in the Clubhouse.

 

[Backache]

Out of curiosity, how many clubs actually implement MLR E-12? Or do clubs use some other invented local rule?

We have it for qualifying competitions, for other purposes they request that mats are also used in the light rough for course maintenance.

 

[Orikoru]

Most, if not all, at my place use the spark mat level with the ground with the exception of one bloke. He's a lovely fella, but poor at golf. He hits it 120 if that with his driver with the weirdest swing ever. He tilts the spurk up so that his ball is projected upwards. Surely there is more that just me that has noticed this? But I'm sure no one really cares. Does it really matter in winter golf? Previous comments excepted. Lol

Honestly not even sure why he perceives that as helpful. If you gave me the choice between an uphill lie and a nice, flat one, I'd choose flat every time.

 

[2blue]

So, I was involved in this chat on the other thread, and I see this one has taken off. I haven't gone through all comments, but to summarise my take:

I have a Spurk mat, which is hard and flat. If the mat is even at a slight angle, the ball rolls off. Therefore, every time I place the mat, I make sure the mat is flat, even if the turf underneath is at an angle. This is not to gain an advantage, it is simply to keep the ball from rolling off.

I do not agree that the mat MUST be placed so that it is parallel to the ground. I have never seen this written anywhere. And if that was a condition, I would then need to find a very flat piece of ground. That could be quite some distance away, and could increase the time to play a round of golf significantly. Especially on hilly courses. And for what purpose? Because some people think it is against the spirit of the game to have the mat flattened, yet they are happy for me to play from a different spot on the course where the actual ground is flat anyway!?

The cheap mats probably hold the ball better, even if they are on a slight slope. And I know sone people place the ball on the hole to keep it stationary.

As for arguments that "it improves your lie". Well, we are within the "preferred lies" period, are we not?

I'm here with you on this ^^^^ I'm sure I've seen a LR that says if you can't keep the ball on a mat, then move it to the nearest location that works..... still Q golf... but we'r in Winter & all playing to the same rules... well mostly. as at any time of year as far as I've seen.

 

[rulie]

I'm here with you on this ^^^^ I'm sure I've seen a LR that says if you can't keep the ball on a mat, then move it to the nearest location that works..... still Q golf... but we'r in Winter & all playing to the same rules... well mostly. as at any time of year as far as I've seen.

Have a look at MLR E-12, on the R&A website ( or in the other thread about mats).

 

[Swango1980]

I'm here with you on this ^^^^ I'm sure I've seen a LR that says if you can't keep the ball on a mat, then move it to the nearest location that works..... still Q golf... but we'r in Winter & all playing to the same rules... well mostly. as at any time of year as far as I've seen.

Indeed. There will be extreme slopes where even adjusting the mat won't keep ball on it. Thus there needs to be a local rule to allow you to play from a different spot that is flatter.

 

[clubchamp98]

Still havnt had a yes or no .
It seems MLR E-12 is open to interpretation depending on your point of view.!

 

[2blue]

Out of curiosity, how many clubs actually implement MLR E-12? Or do clubs use some other invented local rule?

W£e do too!!

 

[rulie]

Still havnt had a yes or no .
It seems MLR E-12 is open to interpretation depending on your point of view.!

A yes or no to what?