memememe
New member
Following on from the thread started earlier, how many of you are at courses that different sets of Stroke indexes for match play and stroke play
Courses with different SIs for match play and stroke play
- Thread starter memememe
- Start date
2blue
Journeyman Pro
Yeah, I guess you could consider just having a slip of paper/card, with the M/Play SI's on for each tee. Would at least save on cost of cards etc.
full_throttle
Tour Winner
Heacham Manor have two SI for each hole, one for match play on for stroke play,
I also played another course that has the same, although I can't remember the course name
I also played another course that has the same, although I can't remember the course name
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
When it first came in we did but so many players played off the wrong card we went back to just one based on difficulty.
The amount of Stableford played at our club compared to match play made the choice of which to use a no brainer.
I tried to resurrect the idea again a couple of years ago, when I was on committee, but it was turned down.
The amount of Stableford played at our club compared to match play made the choice of which to use a no brainer.
I tried to resurrect the idea again a couple of years ago, when I was on committee, but it was turned down.
2blue
Journeyman Pro
When did that first come in?
So, did you have separate strokeplay & m/play cards?
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jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The requirement to have two cards came in when the idea of setting different SIs for match play came in (many years ago). Yes we had two cards then one for match and one for St'ford.
For some reason the committee at the time decreed that the match play cards should only be used for official matches (probably on a cost basis) hence some of the matches were played off eh wrong cards because some members were unaware match play cards existed.
I have always said if you are going to do it that way both S.I.s should be on one card so it is obvious.
Personally I have always maintained it is nonsense anyway and it is the method of giving strokes is that is fundamentally wrong but it never going to change due to traditionalists.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Memory can go wrong at my age.
When we went to just one card it was originally S.I. for match play but I believe there were lots of complaints about the S.I s (on one hole in particular) and a later committee made it just one card based upon St'ford.
One of the things that really has to be taken in to consideration with our course is that the first 9 is very much the harder 9 of the 2.
When we went to just one card it was originally S.I. for match play but I believe there were lots of complaints about the S.I s (on one hole in particular) and a later committee made it just one card based upon St'ford.
One of the things that really has to be taken in to consideration with our course is that the first 9 is very much the harder 9 of the 2.
memememe
New member
What's your course Jim, if you don;t mind me asking. PM Me if you would rather
rulefan
Tour Winner
The idea for separate match play SIs came in about 12 years ago. It was an imported idea from Australia where it had been in use for many years. All courses were mandated to have two 'cards'. In fact the mp indices (based on position significance) were same for every course having been set by what is now Golf Australia. The stroke play indices based on 'difficulty' were set by the clubs.
According to a note I have dated 2016, EG issued a revised recommendation for anything other than medal (ie match play, stableford and par) competitions. I don't know if many ever adopted it.
2blue
Journeyman Pro
So how does that work out?
We've found, using the new WHS method, that our biggest differences are between Yellows & Whites as we have 2 very tough Par 4's that become easier as Par 5's off Whites & 2 Par 3's that are 40 to 50 yds longer off Whites. I think our best solution after more tees are rated will be separate gender cards with Yellow SI's different to White/Indigo Tees
2blue
Journeyman Pro
Ah, that explains what I'd read a number of years ago about fixed SI's being the case in other countries. I think there may be the remnants of that at some Clubs.... well doesn't appear to be any other explanation.
Based just on difficulty ranking our Par 3's appear as Yellow SI's 6. 8. 13, 15 & Whites 6, 9, 10, 13 though their current Si's are 15, 16, 17, 18 ...... so nowhere near the WHS suggestions
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
It is is shown in Location - Yeovil
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Two of the par 5 s are the stroke 17 and 18 and there is not a lot of difference in difficulty between white and red yellow. One par 5 is stroke 13 and again the only difference between white and yellow is the distance about 40 yards. Off the whites it is a true par 5 and off yellow a tough par 4 .
Some holes eg SIs 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 are on different halves they could be exchanged as they are about equal difficulty.
There is only one hole that has a major difficulty difference between white and yellow and that is the SI 4 but it is tough hole particularly in winter off either tee.
2blue
Journeyman Pro
I see your Par 3's are very low at SI 5, 7, 14 & 3
Has this raised any issues??
I also see you have pretty short Par 4's like ourselves.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Our SIs are based upon difficulty using historical medal scores (simple press of the button with I.G). Seeing the yardage is one thing seeing the layout another.
E.g the SI 3 is over 200 yards with the green substantially below the level of the tee (top a hill to the bottom of a hill), the predominate wind is hard left to right with trees on the left and right short, ground slopes to the right, deep rough on the right, OB beyond the green, big bunker short right, two tier small green and there is nowhere on the green that does not have a slope in some direction.
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
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- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
Creates pandemonium for the poor folk who mark society cards when half the group use the wrong SI for their point's 
2blue
Journeyman Pro
What does??.... is there something missing here?Creates pandemonium for the poor folk who mark society cards when half the group use the wrong SI for their point's
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 13,002
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
2 different stroke indexes for the same hole, and some folk use the wrong set so take shots on wrong hole. Theyd get the same number of shots, but will mess up their score in a stableford. (Where card has both SIs on the same card side by side). Can’t remember where I saw it but it’s happened
2blue
Journeyman Pro
Ah, yes, got yer.
Yes we already have that issue with Ladies SI's being in the same block & different, so I simply scribble down their SI's.
I'd do the same for Yellows & White SI's depending on the Competition, so basically no different, once you have a procedure.
CountLippe
Active member
For Matchplay should holes be rated by absolute difficulty, or difficulty in relation to Par?
Take a short 5 and a long par 4. Both have similar length circa 470 yeards and average scores, say 5.6. The par 4 will likely be SI 1 or 2, the Par 5 SI 17 or 18. For stableford this makes sense. However in a matchplay situation where Par has no bearing, the longer the hole the bigger the advantage of better golfer and should be rated as such.
Take a short 5 and a long par 4. Both have similar length circa 470 yeards and average scores, say 5.6. The par 4 will likely be SI 1 or 2, the Par 5 SI 17 or 18. For stableford this makes sense. However in a matchplay situation where Par has no bearing, the longer the hole the bigger the advantage of better golfer and should be rated as such.
