clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Rough grows though.
Our rough is mental atm but the rating dosnt grow.
Course Rating
- Thread starter rulefan
- Start date
Our rough is mental atm but the rating dosnt grow.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Maybe the system should let the greenkeepers decide what the Slope should be on any given day?
I suppose Clubs require to try and keep their course in a fairly consistent condition throughout the year, although I suppose that is done better at some clubs than others. At my last club, from May to July they grew the rough just off the first cut to waist / chest high on 4/5 holes. Just miss the fairway, it is virtually impossible to find your ball. Around Mid July, they cut it all down, and bailed it up for the horses. If you happened to be out on the day they were cutting it, you could get yourself over 100 golf balls. From July to the end of the season, you not only find your ball easily if you miss the fairway, you have a fairly decent lie.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
They grew the rough for the rerating , somehow having longer rough than a ball got lost in made it a lower slope
wjemather
Well-known member
Courses are rated based on the information provided to the raters at the time (both average rough height and cut height are included in that) and the presentation of the course on rating day (clubs are advised it should be a normal setup for rough height, green speed, etc.). Ratings are not dynamic (other than the PCC - which isn't going to be effective when all handicaps are based on a setup that differs from the rated setup) and there are no ongoing random inspections to ensure the information provided was accurate or that the course wasn't tricked-up/down for rating day.
If daily course management policy has changed, the county course rating team should be advised so the ratings can be adjusted. There would be no need for a full re-rating but they may wish to visit to confirm the changes.
wjemather
Well-known member
Perhaps the rating team knew the club was being dishonest and ignored the presentation of the rough on the day?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
If the rough is not normally like that then they shouldn’t be just growing it for a rating - should be like that all the time
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
That’s the problem in a nut shell for me.
Rating a course is like getting fitted for clubs .
You swing on the day determines what you get all year round.
But if a rating is lowered then the GK decides not to cut the rough anymore that rating is out of date.
The GK are deciding how hard the course is by the way they maintain it ,that is a flaw in any system of rating. Imo.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
Are they allowed to ignore what's presented in front of them? Surely you take the course as found that day
wjemather
Well-known member
The rating system gets updated regularly, with the values of certain things changing as their impact is reassessed. This has resulted in a small reduction in Bogey Ratings, and hence Slope (but only by one or two), generally when courses come to be re-rated in this cycle.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
How would they know that?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
My place was reassessed last September with adjusted CR and SR coming into effect on 1st March.
Par 72
White Tees: CR 71.6 to 72.5; SR 125 to 136
Yellow Tees: CR 70.0 to 70.8; SR 125 to 130
The rationale that the EG ratings team provided (at least that as shared by the club) is:
3. Updated Ratings & Colour Schemes
New course and SLOPE ratings issued by England Golf reflect an overall increase in difficulty compared to initial World Handicap System (WHS) ratings.
Reasons for these changes include:
The immediate impact was that everyone's CH off both tees went up - for higher handicappers by 3. And the consequence of that is that winning stableford/nett scores have become higher/lower. Obvious that that was going to happen - significantly more players are scoring 36+ s/ford pts or nett <72. Plus in two of the last five comps I've played there has been a PCC of -1. I do not recall us ever previously having a -ve PCC, and I've been a member for over 21 yrs.
Par 72
White Tees: CR 71.6 to 72.5; SR 125 to 136
Yellow Tees: CR 70.0 to 70.8; SR 125 to 130
The rationale that the EG ratings team provided (at least that as shared by the club) is:
3. Updated Ratings & Colour Schemes
New course and SLOPE ratings issued by England Golf reflect an overall increase in difficulty compared to initial World Handicap System (WHS) ratings.
Reasons for these changes include:
- Evolution in rating calculations over recent years.
- Increased green speed ratings based on cutting height and playing conditions.
- Adjusted rough ratings and challenges for off-line shots.
- Higher penalties for Out of Bounds compared to other hazards.
- Greater difficulty for carry obstacles and forced lay-ups.
The immediate impact was that everyone's CH off both tees went up - for higher handicappers by 3. And the consequence of that is that winning stableford/nett scores have become higher/lower. Obvious that that was going to happen - significantly more players are scoring 36+ s/ford pts or nett <72. Plus in two of the last five comps I've played there has been a PCC of -1. I do not recall us ever previously having a -ve PCC, and I've been a member for over 21 yrs.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
Which makes sense but a drop of 6 in the rating seems rather excessive
wjemather
Well-known member
The setup on any given day may not be representative of the usual setup, which is what ratings should be based on in order to ultimately provide accurate handicaps.
So yes, if courses are tricked up for the day, adjustments will be made.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Ours was lengthened over the years.
Length is a factor for bogey golfers.
One thing I’ve noticed is the “ official reasoning for lowering “ dosnt really resonate with golfers playing the game.
It might be what the manual says.
Just like “football isn’t played on paper “
wjemather
Well-known member
There were clearly other changes.
Things like lowering the rough height, slowing the greens, etc. would reduce the Bogey Rating more than the Scratch/Course Rating, and hence reduce Slope.
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
Just like the definition of a bogey golfer. Very much one size fits all when it's anything but
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Ours went down 9 from 129 to 120.
We thought that was excessive.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
Our club have the rough height published in the Course Policy document, which I imagine can be used by the raters.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Well it would be silly to let the rough grow to fool raters as is being suggested
if it’s published in writing as to what is the norm.
wjemather
Well-known member
Length is always the dominant factor, but increasing actual length doesn't always increase the effective length, especially if there are layups, and can often end up moving obstacles out of the landing zones for rating, lowering their value significantly.
Also, courses can change quite a bit over ten years and sometimes those changes are not particularly noticeable for regular players, if at all. For example, it's not uncommon for fairway width to change over time, increasing or lowering it's target value for rating; many clubs have added a semi-cut alongside the fairways which increases the effective fairway width (& lowering the target value) for rating purposes; etc.
Observing a rating would give you a good insight into what goes into them and help understand where the real difficulties are for players in general, not just the difficulties you find yourself.
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