Couple of questions.

[Beezerk]

First one.

Hit my drive down another fairway last night, an old couple were walking up the other hole and pointed to me that my ball was further down. Got to the ball only to find it wasn't mine, we could only assume the old lady had played my ball and not noticed. It was only a knockabout and the old dear was way up the fairway by now and it was far too hot to go running after her
What would the ruling be in a comp? Lost ball so walk back and play 3 off the tee?

Same hole, my pp thins his wedge through the green and ends up close to the OOB fence. There is a section of chicken wire which has come away from the fence and is bent over quite a bit, it's stopping my pp from having a decent swing at the ball.
Can he move the chicken wire back into it's normal position without penalty or just play it like it is without moving the wire?

 

[Colin L]

1) You would have to go running after her to establish whether she had indeed played your ball. If she had, you would replace your ball or another one at the spot where it had been - or since it's more than likely that you don't know exactly where it had been, drop it at an estimated spot. If she hadn't and you can't estabish with certainty that anyone or anything else had taken it, your ball will be lost after 5 minutes of searching.

2) You are not permitted to bend a bit of a boundary fence back. You must play the ball as it lies. See Decision 13-2/18

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-13,d13-2-18

 

[Deleted member 16999]

1) You would have to go running after her to establish whether she had indeed played your ball. If she had, you would replace your ball or another one at the spot where it had been - or since it's more than likely that you don't know exactly where it had been, drop it at an estimated spot. If she hadn't and you can't estabish with certainty that anyone or anything else had taken it, your ball will be lost after 5 minutes of searching.

2) You are not permitted to bend a bit of a boundary fence back. You must play the ball as it lies. See Decision 13-2/18

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-13,d13-2-18

Look this section of the forum.

Colin, just read the decision you quoted, is that applicable as Bezeerk did state the chicken wire has come away and is not actually bowed.

Could he not take relief under:
13-2/20 Part of Fence Off Course Leans Across Boundary and Interferes with Swing.

Only asking as similarly on our course we often get kids bending the fence to get on the course and in places it hangs inbounds.

More often than not members simply bend it back if it is interfering with their swing.

 

[Colin L]

D13-2/20 is about a fence that is off the course. It is not a boundary fence whereas Beezerk's fence is.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

D13-2/20 is about a fence that is off the course. It is not a boundary fence whereas Beezerk's fence is.

I get that, but the chicken wire is no longer fixed, hence the confusion with the wording in your original decision.
Surely a player should not be penalised for damage to the fence? If one of the fence posts was broken and on the course surely it could be moved.

 

[Beezerk]

I get that, but the chicken wire is no longer fixed, hence the confusion with the wording in your original decision.
Surely a player should not be penalised for damage to the fence? If one of the fence posts was broken and on the course surely it could be moved.

Oi, stop trying to get Alan a free drop 😂

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Oi, stop trying to get Alan a free drop 😂

Everyday’s a school day on this thread,

 

[Colin L]

I get that, but the chicken wire is no longer fixed..... .

I took it from the original description that the chicken wire is still attached to and part of the fence.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I took it from the original description that the chicken wire is still attached to and part of the fence.

He stated part of it had come away.

Come on Bezeerk clarify the wire

 

[Beezerk]

He stated part of it had come away.

Come on Bezeerk clarify the wire

Yes it was kind of half attached, so the top half of that section had come undone from the fence and bent forwards (towards the hole if you will) by quite a bit. It obviously needed fixing and shouldn’t normally be like that.

 

[rulefan]

"kind of half attached"

In that case it's still part of the fence

 

[Deleted member 16999]

"kind of half attached"

In that case it's still part of the fence

But doesn’t fit the definition of bowed, if the fence was broken in half and attached at both ends but lying over inbounds, that would also tough?

 

[Colin L]

Some Decisions are illustrative and have a wider application than the particular terms used in it. The bowed fence is representative of any form of distortion of a boundary fence that results in a bit of the fence overhanging the course. The fence is a "fixed object", not an obstruction. No free relief is available from it or part of it that is overhanging the course. A loose panel, a section of wire mesh, a bulge, a paling stob leaning over etc is part of the fence if it is still attached. To move or bend part of a fixed object is a breach of Rule 13-2 if it improves your lie or area of intended swing.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Some Decisions are illustrative and have a wider application than the particular terms used in it. The bowed fence is representative of any form of distortion of a boundary fence that results in a bit of the fence overhanging the course. The fence is a "fixed object", not an obstruction. No free relief is available from it or part of it that is overhanging the course. A loose panel, a section of wire mesh, a bulge, a paling stob leaning over etc is part of the fence if it is still attached. To move or bend part of a fixed object is a breach of Rule 13-2 if it improves your lie or area of intended swing.

Thanks for the reply guys, one further question, would Bezeerk been ok to “fix” the fence and his playing partner get the benefit or can his playing partner “fix” the fence after he’s played his shot so it doesn’t interfere with anyone else?

 

[rulefan]

He can't fix it before he plays his shot. It is a breach of 13-2.

The is no constraint after they have cleared the area

 

[Crazyface]

And yet ll the pros get free relief from all sorts. Grandstands for example. I'd say to them "Did you not see it there? Well ok then play it from where you've hit it to". LOL

 

[rulefan]

And yet ll the pros get free relief from all sorts. Grandstands for example. I'd say to them "Did you not see it there? Well ok then play it from where you've hit it to". LOL

So you say to yourself when your ball is lying against a fixed marker post "play it from where you've hit it to"?

They wouldn't get relief from a broken boundary fence or any boundary fence for that matter. Remember Mickelson having to walk round outside the course to play his shot standing on the street.

You would of course get relief from a temporary grandstand or TV tower if one was erected on your course.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So you say to yourself when your ball is lying against a fixed marker post "play it from where you've hit it to"?

They wouldn't get relief from a broken boundary fence or any boundary fence for that matter. Remember Mickelson having to walk round outside the course to play his shot standing on the street.

You would of course get relief from a temporary grandstand or TV tower if one was erected on your course.

I understand the rule and thanks for the info, I just don’t understand why if something has been broken but still attached at one end and lying on the course or overhanging why it wouldn’t be classed as caring for the course if you fix it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I understand the rule and thanks for the info, I just don’t understand why if something has been broken but still attached at one end and lying on the course or overhanging why it wouldn’t be classed as caring for the course if you fix it.

I'm guessing the rule is as it is (as many rules of golf are) to avoid debate over what is and what isn't; what's broke and what isn't; what can be 'fixed' and what can't.

As players we can just assume that we can't do anything about any aspect of a boundary fence before we play our next shot (or take other measure) on the basis that the context of where the ball lies is exactly as it was before we hit our ball there - and so we have to deal with it.

Nobody ever said that golf was supposed to be fair...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'm guessing the rule is as it is (as many rules of golf are) to avoid debate over what is and what isn't; what's broke and what isn't; what can be 'fixed' and what can't.

As players we can just assume that we can't do anything about any aspect of a boundary fence before we play our next shot (or take other measure) on the basis that the context of where the ball lies is exactly as it was before we hit our ball there - and so we have to deal with it.

Nobody ever said that golf was supposed to be fair...

It’s not about fair, maybe I’m coming from the wrong angle.

As posted above, local kids break our oob on one side of the course, they snap/break the fixings on one side and push it inwards onto/overhanging the course.

Just seems daft to me to say, unlucky golfer, play it as it lies or take a penalty because some scumbag has no respect for property.

That scenario has nothing to do with being fair, upto now members simply push it back and report it even if it interfered with the next shot/swing.

If one of the little darlings ran on and knicked your ball the rules don’t punish you, but if he he breaks the oob fence, that’s the rub of the green.