Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 16999]

Jess Phillips is now suggesting that next year’s students should be graded by their teachers.

Might not be a bad thing to put something in place now and review it after 4-6 months or whatever. Make the Teachers more accountable etc.

God knows what will happen if we do get hit by the virus badly again in the winter.

Can’t be any more a fiasco than this year.

Whatever is decided the kids should be the priority.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

 

[pendodave]

Just read (might not be true, so apologies if not) that following her successful role heading up the world leading test and trace effort, dido harding will be leading the mooted replacement for PHE...
What could possibly go right???
Hey ho and on we go...

 

[Ethan]

Just read (might not be true, so apologies if not) that following her successful role heading up the world leading test and trace effort, dido harding will be leading the mooted replacement for PHE...
What could possibly go right???
Hey ho and on we go...

It is precisely the wrong thing to do. They have been shown what works and what doesn't, so the response is to allow the part that doesn't work to run the part that does. PHE has been slowly neglected for years, and Public Health has been undervalued for even longer. Most PH is not pandemic stuff, it is following up meningitis, food poisoning, STDs, working with other agencies on everything from for labelling to anti-suicide strategies. Dido has no clue at all about any of this, and nobody has the time to teach her, so we can expect all these things to get neglected further. NHS Test and Trace as currently contracted should be scrapped and Serco told to sling their overpriced hooks. Testing should be properly devolved to local bodies and testing criteria set locally, so contacts of cases can and should be tested, and so some idea how many people have bee tested, as opposed to how many tests have been posted out.

 

[Ethan]

Jess Phillips is now suggesting that next year’s students should be graded by their teachers.

Well, she has a point. Some students will get in to Uni this year who wouldn't get in next year. If I was one of next years, I might consider that unfair. Maybe a transitional process is needed.

The Govt wil have to increase student numbers this year. The net effect of teacher assessment is that more students will get qualifying grades. Most courses will have to increase numbers, and for some like Medicine whose numbers are set by Govt, those guidelines will have to change. Then in 5 years, they will need more Housemen jobs for those graduates in Medicine or see they will go overseas.

My old Uni, Queens in Belfast has just issued a statement on this. It references the NI arrangements, but same issue across the UK.

QUB statement

 

[drdel]

NI only originally said teachers assessment would only count on GCSE results because most A level papers were set by English exams boards, they did there Albert Turner on A levels at the same time as the UK Government as just reported on BBC.

Grade inflation has been going on for decades; especially when Schools are publicly 'ranked'/assessed.

In my experience even 'A' graded maths/science undergraduates' skills are pretty dire - even p.grad Masters level candidates cannot be guaranteed to be competent in quantitative methods.

It does not do anything other than give students unreal expectations and employers disappointment.

 

[AmandaJR]

I'm still puzzled that it seems to be simply accepted that teachers will over estimate student grades. Not once have I heard any criticism of that - simply that it's fact. Surely they're professional people who should be accurate and trustworthy when it comes to assessing their students.

As for unreal expectations. The numbers of students requiring special measures for exams - extra time, supervised rest breaks, lap tops etc is surely only adding to that. When they hit the real world employers aren't going to accept it takes them 25% longer to do the same job, or that they need 5 minutes rest every half an hour.

Not really coronavirus as such but this current debacle shines a light on a system which for me is setting many up for failure.

Government's handling has been shocking (before my resident stalker feels the need to argue with me)...all the tools seem far too blunt and can't understand why there hasn't been a more student-based rather than school-based system. After all their papers would have all been individually marked.

 

[AmandaJR]

Ha ha ha - Gavin Williamson being torn a new one by Louise Minchen - Louise Minchen - holy cow he is awful!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Ha ha ha - Gavin Williamson being torn a new one by Louise Minchen - Louise Minchen - holy cow he is awful!

Very poor wasn't he? Better to front up and be straight. Instead he ignored the questions and waffled his script. Has to be gone soon, surely.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Interesting college head on the radio yesterday afternoon.

'Awarding grades based on teachers assessments is not a good method but it is the least worst option.'

'Comparing next years grades to this years is pointless. Compare them to 2019 students. 2020 is an anomaly, accept that and move on'

The above isn't word for word but it is close. I think it was a fair assessment of where we are at, how to deal with this and move on.

 

[AmandaJR]

Interesting college head on the radio yesterday afternoon.

'Awarding grades based on teachers assessments is not a good method but it is the least worst option.'

'Comparing next years grades to this years is pointless. Compare them to 2019 students. 2020 is an anomaly, accept that and move on'

The above isn't word for word but it is close. I think it was a fair assessment of where we are at, how to deal with this and move on.

I heard that too and it makes sense but I'm not sure how much A Level grades count down the line? If you go to Uni and get a degree then I assume that grade supercedes the A Levels and down the line on a CV will be the marker of the individual. Not sure about those that leave mainstream education and whether their 3 A*s would favour them versus the 3 Bs an equally good candidate got through "fairer" means?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Jess Phillips is now suggesting that next year’s students should be graded by their teachers.

You'll be glad she's not in government then and so her views will make little difference to what happens. We should be asking the PM and education minister about the government's contingency plan for next year.

 

[Foxholer]

I'm talking about this government....no other government - this one. A government that had seen what had happened in Scotland and what Sturgeon had to do - (she said she was sorry) but continued to insist on their way. And yet Johnson and Williamson doubled down...talking up a system that Johnson called a 'robust and dependable' system. So what you think? Just for a change how about addressing yet another abject failure of this government.

This exactly the reason i posted 'surprising lack of common-sense leadership'!
I can forgive, up to a point, mistakes made in the battle against Covid. But (as per the italicised bit) they had warning from Scotland's 'experience' and should have known that the same was going to happen in England. Completely shambolic! Perfectly described as 'abject failure by this government' by SILH!

 

[Ethan]

Grade inflation has been going on for decades; especially when Schools are publicly 'ranked'/assessed.

In my experience even 'A' graded maths/science undergraduates' skills are pretty dire - even p.grad Masters level candidates cannot be guaranteed to be competent in quantitative methods.

It does not do anything other than give students unreal expectations and employers disappointment.

Grade inflation would not be a problem if each grade was allocated to a certain percentage of candidates, e.g. an A* to the top 5%, and A to the next 10% and so on.

 

[Ethan]

Interesting college head on the radio yesterday afternoon.

'Awarding grades based on teachers assessments is not a good method but it is the least worst option.'

'Comparing next years grades to this years is pointless. Compare them to 2019 students. 2020 is an anomaly, accept that and move on'

The above isn't word for word but it is close. I think it was a fair assessment of where we are at, how to deal with this and move on.

The effects of this year will be very much there next year. It seems likely that many students will be allocated places, but deferred ones because there is not room for them. This is a concern in Medicine, for example, so they will get places next year, which will then squeeze availability for next years students who have also been denied a term and half of ket education and whose grades will be affected.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm still puzzled that it seems to be simply accepted that teachers will over estimate student grades. Not once have I heard any criticism of that - simply that it's fact. Surely they're professional people who should be accurate and trustworthy when it comes to assessing their students.

As for unreal expectations. The numbers of students requiring special measures for exams - extra time, supervised rest breaks, lap tops etc is surely only adding to that. When they hit the real world employers aren't going to accept it takes them 25% longer to do the same job, or that they need 5 minutes rest every half an hour.

Not really coronavirus as such but this current debacle shines a light on a system which for me is setting many up for failure.

Government's handling has been shocking (before my resident stalker feels the need to argue with me)...all the tools seem far too blunt and can't understand why there hasn't been a more student-based rather than school-based system. After all their papers would have all been individually marked.

Don't know what you've been listening to - but I have heard plenty of comment and criticism of teachers over-estimating...

 

[drdel]

The 'grade' a student attains is supposed to indicate and reflect the level and capability achieved in that subject that can then be built upon and used by an employer or future study. Grade inflation is a reality. In the past we in the UK would look down on the USA degrees.

I can tell you that some of the material I used in US universities undergraduate course was beyond that of a few UK post grad students.

Dishonesty in grading does the UK harm in the long run.

 

[Foxholer]

...
In my experience even 'A' graded maths/science undergraduates' skills are pretty dire - even p.grad Masters level candidates cannot be guaranteed to be competent in quantitative methods.
...

Re the bold bit...Surely, that a criticism of the University/ies, as opposed to Schools, as they've, presumably, passed their Uni's exams for 3 years.

 

[Foxholer]

Don't know what you've been listening to - but I have heard plenty of comment and criticism of teachers over-estimating...

And as a School's 'rating' is significantly influenced by academic achievement(s), 'the system' encourages them to do so!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The effects of this year will be very much there next year. It seems likely that many students will be allocated places, but deferred ones because there is not room for them. This is a concern in Medicine, for example, so they will get places next year, which will then squeeze availability for next years students who have also been denied a term and half of ket education and whose grades will be affected.

A number of universtities are restricting the number of deferrments as they were receiving so many requests for it. Due to covid the year is not going to be what a lot were hoping for so the rush to defer has been big. The worry you mention is a very real one and hopefully this has been addressed. It will though affect next years intake no matter as there are bound tobe more deferrments than usual, meaning less spaces available overall for them.