Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Old Skier]

You are most welcome to defend any and all of those, but you will have a more constructive and interesting debate if you do so with rational arguments rather than accusations that the other person is biased or just against the Govt. even those of us who ARE against the Govt are capable to breaking down the issues and you may be surprised to find that we are not against everything they do.

You may have less success finding agreement on aspects of Brexit and Trump, though.

I am not aware of people who insulted SAGE, although I, for one, have pointed out, correctly, that most of them are on the Govt payroll, so cannot really be considered independent.

Thank you for explaining how you feel I should debate with someone who’s only form of post normaly involves one kind of general moan/insult or other, much appreciated although not really needed.

Trump may not be our ideal for President of the good old USA but to insult him and those that voted him in does seem strange.

As to Brexit, time for the minority to move on.

Be interested to know who you feel are funding the destabilising group who call themselves alternative SAGE.

 

[SocketRocket]

You are most welcome to defend any and all of those, but you will have a more constructive and interesting debate if you do so with rational arguments rather than accusations that the other person is biased or just against the Govt. even those of us who ARE against the Govt are capable to breaking down the issues and you may be surprised to find that we are not against everything they do.

You may have less success finding agreement on aspects of Brexit and Trump, though.

I am not aware of people who insulted SAGE, although I, for one, have pointed out, correctly, that most of them are on the Govt payroll, so cannot really be considered independent.

Jeremy Corbyn is on the Government payroll but hes not a great supporter.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Funny how the person who has had a dig/insulted

The PM
Every Government Minister
The way his son shouldn't have to be included in the rules for UC
The SAGE Committee
President Trump
Anyone who voted Trump
Everyone who voted for Brexit
Everyone who voted Conservative

has the cheek to accuse others of having a dig, I didn’t have a dig, take it anyway you like but to even suggest that death numbers, no matter how low, can counter any agenda is plain sick.

I call out the PM in accordance with known and well published FACTS.
I do not call out every government minister - in fact I have quite often praised Hancock and Sunak. I question the competency of others.
I have NEVER ONCE suggested that my son shouldn't have to be included in the rules for UC - I suggested how the government might have considered things differently on a 'once-only' basis at the very outset of the lockdown.
I have absolutely no idea what you are on about in respect of the SAGE Committee - in fact I can't recall every having actually posted anything specifically about the SAGE committee
President Trump - FACT. And if you don't believe he has told one of two lies and is a threat to US democracy then it's easy to check that out.
Anyone who voted for Trump...? You mean his core 32% for whom he could commit murder on 5th Avenue and get away with it? Again. Not sure I often criticise his support....they are who they are.
Everyone who voted Brexit. Get over it - we are leaving. I have in the past suggested that many who voted to Leave were deceived by leading proponents of Leave. I do not change my view. It is pointless though - as we are leaving.
Everyone who voted Conservative. Now that's a bit of a jump as I can't recall when I last criticised anyone for being a Conservative voter. I might strongly disagree with many Conservative policies and might also suggest that many who vote Conservative may well have different personal agendas to mine - but hey - that's just politics

And it was not I who posted questioning why the BBC were no longer reporting the numbers of deaths.

And btw - I really struggled with Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party - and though having generally socialist inclinations I did not vote Labour in the last election because of him. I frankly did not trust him.

 

[Ethan]

Thank you for explaining how you feel I should debate with someone who’s only form of post normaly involves one kind of general moan/insult or other, much appreciated although not really needed.

Trump may not be our ideal for President of the good old USA but to insult him and those that voted him in does seem strange.

As to Brexit, time for the minority to move on.

Be interested to know who you feel are funding the destabilising group who call themselves alternative SAGE.

There you go, a snarky response typical of the intolerant Brexiter. A quick review of recent posts in this forum suggest it is quite typical for you to post an aggressive opinion and no facts, so I take no lectures from you.

No idea who is funding The Independent SAGE. At least they are independent. And their opinions have not been wrong.

 

[Kellfire]

There you go, a snarky response typical of the intolerant Brexiter. A quick review of recent posts in this forum suggest it is quite typical for you to post an aggressive opinion and no facts, so I take no lectures from you.

No idea who is funding The Independent SAGE. At least they are independent. And their opinions have not been wrong.

YoU LOST M8 get ova IT. etc.

 

[Old Skier]

There you go, a snarky response typical of the intolerant Brexiter. A quick review of recent posts in this forum suggest it is quite typical for you to post an aggressive opinion and no facts, so I take no lectures from you.

No idea who is funding The Independent SAGE. At least they are independent. And their opinions have not been wrong.

No more ore less snarky than your respons. PS Brexiters don’t have to be intolerant. It appears to be remainders that have gone all gammon on every one/thing.

 

[drdel]

You are most welcome to defend any and all of those, but you will have a more constructive and interesting debate if you do so with rational arguments rather than accusations that the other person is biased or just against the Govt. even those of us who ARE against the Govt are capable to breaking down the issues and you may be surprised to find that we are not against everything they do.

You may have less success finding agreement on aspects of Brexit and Trump, though.

I am not aware of people who insulted SAGE, although I, for one, have pointed out, correctly,(1) that most of them are on the Govt payroll, so cannot really be considered independent (2).

1. This is your opinion, worth no more and no less.

2. There is such a thing as professional integrity - whether the paymaster is the Government will not impact an expert's deduction: unless they are prepared for ridiculed by their peers and a short life as an advisor.

 

[Ethan]

1. This is your opinion, worth no more and no less.

2. There is such a thing as professional integrity - whether the paymaster is the Government will not impact an expert's deduction: unless they are prepared for ridiculed by their peers and a short life as an advisor.

So you condemn something that I said as an opinion, no more or no less, then offer an opinion yourself, no more or no less.

You must be rather naive to think that the source of employment does not affect an opinion.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Gents
Let’s stop the tit for tat exchanges please

Thank you

 

[drdel]

So you condemn something that I said as an opinion, no more or no less, then offer an opinion yourself, no more or no less. You must be rather naive to think that the source of employment does not affect an opinion.

I did not condemn I merely identified it as an opinion.

It is ironic that some posts ago you attacked the validity of my expertise and now you call me 'naive' : you post with personal insults yet expect your own didactic post to be accepted.

My opinion on 'experts' is based on having being a member on numerous of UK high level Government panels, Chair of Paris' OECD 15 nation specialist committee etc. During that 30 odd years I have found that the professional experts are quite capable of employing a balanced and logical approach to their task devoid of paymaster influence.

 

[Old Skier]

So you condemn something that I said as an opinion, no more or no less, then offer an opinion yourself, no more or no less.

You must be rather naive to think that the source of employment does not affect an opinion.

Is it your opinion that professional scientists and medical experts will mislead the public just to stay on side with the government.

 

[Ethan]

Is it your opinion that professional scientists and medical experts will mislead the public just to stay on side with the government.

Is that what I said? No.

There are a variety of reasons to explain it. One of them is that the construction of the committee may give undue weight to certain components of the debate, for example behavioural psychology or modelling, rather than virology or molecular biology, and groupthink is another well known problem which affects such groups. Finally, the committee members may be selected, or excluded, in part based on pre-existing knowledge of their opinions. These opinions offered by SGAE are opinions. Drdel will be along shortly to confirm that opinions are not facts, therefore other opinions are also available. A wise committee would take account of opinions offered by external experts whether statutory or not.

Sir David King, former Chief Scientific Adviser, was head of The Independent SAGE. He knows well how things work.

 

[drdel]

Every statement made here by anyone is an opinion.

Many are not capable of being verified or quantitatively or qualitatively tested as repeatable and so remain gossip. Experts generally have views supported by a body of knowledge and are hypothesised as 'facts' by their peers.

It should make debate fun??

 

[Ethan]

Every statement made here by anyone is an opinion.

Many are not capable of being verified or quantitatively or qualitatively tested as repeatable and so remain gossip. Experts generally have views supported by a body of knowledge and are hypothesised as 'facts' by their peers.

It should make debate fun??

That is untrue. Some statements made here are backed up by evidence and facts, others are not. Some people here may be experts in one field or another, some not. Differentiating between these is important, and simply lumping everything into one pot as opinion or gossip is simply a poor attempt to discredit views with which you do not agree nor are able to refute.

Happy to swap professional credentials if you are so that others can see who is qualified in what.

 

[Hacker Khan]

That is untrue. Some statements made here are backed up by evidence and facts, others are not. Some people here may be experts in one field or another, some not. Differentiating between these is important, and simply lumping everything into one pot as opinion or gossip is simply a poor attempt to discredit views with which you do not agree nor are able to refute.

Happy to swap professional credentials if you are so that others can see who is qualified in what.

I'll start, failed O level French first time, passed the second. La plume de ma tante.

 

[Ethan]

I'll start, failed O level French first time, passed the second. La plume de ma tante.

est dans le salon.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'll start, failed O level French first time, passed the second. La plume de ma tante.

If your still looking it's in your Uncles sideboard.

 

[SocketRocket]

est dans le salon.

Est sur le bureau de mon Oncle

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Bonnet de douche ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Mange Tout Rodney. Mange Tout