Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 1740]

And right as rain there it is ???

 

[User20205]

A very politically biased post that is very quick to make criticism but slow to offer any praise. I apreciate it's your opinion but it comes over very unbalanced to me. Although; based on your past postings I expect little else.

Do you think the Govts dealing of the pandemic has been adequate?
If Ethan’s is biased I’d be interested in hearing the counter viewpoint?
From my point of view, I’m not sure anyone could have coped criticism free, but stacking the cabinet with people chosen for their stance on Europe rather than ability, won’t have not worked in their favour. Also as a layman, it does seems that we maybe paying the price for 12 years of austerity.

 

[Old Skier]

Yes it is a take but it was IMHO a very intelligent post by someone with obvious insight and experience in this area. Anyone is free to intelligently counter it.

The NHS has been underfunded since at least the 90's . It is also a very top heavy organization with too many trusts that also drain funds. Labour s attempt to part privatise areas of it and the Torys taking to long to undo the damage is another factor that has had a severe impact. Pointing a fingure at one political party IMO shows a lack of balance.

 

[SocketRocket]

Do you think the Govts dealing of the pandemic has been adequate?
If Ethan’s is biased I’d be interested in hearing the counter viewpoint?

The government are not perfect and have made some questionable decisions but it's easy for us to criticise without the full details that formed their decision making. I also think the government has made some good decisions regarding helping people and businesses through this difficult time, Nightingale Hospitals, flattening the infection rates and getting the Reinfection rate down from about 3 to 1 or below. There is a balance to be struck here and my opinion is that on balance they have taken some very difficult and bold decisions and in many cases good decisions. I dont think it's fair to ask whether their dealing is totally adequate or inadequate as if theres a black or white answer. If I am critical they could have locked down quicker and been harsher with rule breakers, been more proactive with quaranteening people coming into the country but they have IMO also along with the Scientific, Medical experts kept us well informed.

 

[User20205]

I will echo the above re the furlough arrangements & help for business. I can’t comment on the practical workings of the scheme, but from the viewpoint of a furloughed worker, the alternative, if there was one, doesn’t bear thinking about

 

[funkycoldmedina]

A very politically biased post that is very quick to make criticism but slow to offer any praise. I apreciate it's your opinion but it comes over very unbalanced to me. Although; based on your past postings I expect little else.

Do you see the irony in this post?

 

[drdel]

What are the reasons then?

Easily researched... For starters..
Overall rise in population
Aging population, more people needing treatment for longer.
Better medical care for more people, wider issues and complexity,
Cancer care extending life with expensive drugs and equipment
Raising level of expectation of 'free' care
Medical tourism
Etc

Under funding from 1960s, see data reports, easy researched!

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Easily researched... For starters..
Overall rise in population
Aging population, more people needing treatment for longer.
Better medical care for more people, wider issues and complexity,
Cancer care extending life with expensive drugs and equipment
Raising level of expectation of 'free' care
Medical tourism
Etc

Under funding from 1960s, see data reports, easy researched!

Other similar nations have managed to juggle this better than we have we're not unique in our healthcare issues.
Who hasn't prepared for the social care problem we have now affecting our NHS if not government?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

“People think … ‘The Tory party is run by people who basically don’t care about people like me’,” “That is what most people in the country have thought about the Tory party for decades. I know a lot of Tory MPs and I am sad to say the public is basically correct.
“Tory MPs largely do not care about these poorer people. They don’t care about the NHS. And the public has kind of cottoned on to that.” Dominic Cummings 2017

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Let's not sugar the state the NHS is in as just down to PFI's (which it partially is) or changing life expectancy and treatments. There's been systematic chronic underfunding for decades.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The NHS has been underfunded since at least the 90's . It is also a very top heavy organization with too many trusts that also drain funds. Labour s attempt to part privatise areas of it and the Torys taking to long to undo the damage is another factor that has had a severe impact. Pointing a fingure at one political party IMO shows a lack of balance.

Throughout my adult life I seem to have consistently heard claims and complaints that the NHSwas underfunded.

That's a period of over 50 years and covers Governments from Wilson to Johnson.

Due to advances in medical science the demand for funding is seemingly infinite.

Obviously there have been times when the need has been more pressing than others but overall I fear we will always have this problem.

 

[drdel]

“People think … ‘The Tory party is run by people who basically don’t care about people like me’,” “That is what most people in the country have thought about the Tory party for decades. I know a lot of Tory MPs and I am sad to say the public is basically correct.
“Tory MPs largely do not care about these poorer people. They don’t care about the NHS. And the public has kind of cottoned on to that.” Dominic Cummings 2017

What we get for 'free' is IMO pretty incredible and I for one am glad I am here at this present time!!!

 

[Hobbit]

You have no idea he's not there to exert political influence any more than I think he is. He's not a scientist at a supposedly impartial scientific advisory group, he is very influential in government and his presence was leaked because some think he shouldn't be there. He is unaccountable and unelected yet wields significant power in No 10, that is not a secret and worries many people. Your asking for proof of political opinion is largely impossible in this case. It was a big enough story with ample commentary from those who are or have been close to the workings of govt to be worth discussion. SAGE should be apolitical, it's a story because it was him and it was secretive. Clearly some political angle to it.

Your the conspiracy theorist. I refer you to the very first sentence in your post #247, in which you say Cummings is "there to try and politically influence or steer SAGE when it should be independent..." I said prove it. You're the one dealing in supposition and making it up as you go along. watch out, he's behind you

 

[funkycoldmedina]

What we get for 'free' is IMO pretty incredible and I for one am glad I am here at this present time!!!

Does it not come out of our taxes then?

 

[SocketRocket]

Do you see the irony in this post?

No. In my opinion it lacked balance and as such completely ignored any good initiatives from the government. I guess I am entitled to such an opinion. I have seen many posts from him over a number of years and although he has some good knowledge of health services I find his unswerving anti Tory attitude stops him seeing both sides of the situation.

 

[SocketRocket]

And right as rain there it is ???

Absolutely, I could put money on you. ????

 

[rudebhoy]

Your the conspiracy theorist. I refer you to the very first sentence in your post #247, in which you say Cummings is "there to try and politically influence or steer SAGE when it should be independent..." I said prove it. You're the one dealing in supposition and making it up as you go along. watch out, he's behind you

Attendees of Sage meetings worried by presence of Cummings

Scientists on UK government’s coronavirus advisory group say Dominic Cummings was an active participant


The involvement of the prime minister’s chief political adviser, Dominic Cummings, in meetings of the scientific group advising the UK government’s response to the coronavirus has left other attendees shocked, concerned and worried for the impartiality of advice, the Guardian can reveal.

One attendee of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) said they felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process.

A second Sage attendee said they were shocked when Cummings first began participating in Sage discussions, in February, because they believed the group should be providing “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.

The Guardian’s revelation on Friday that Sage attendees have included Cummings and Ben Warner, who worked together on the Vote Leave campaign for Brexit, caused a storm of controversy over the weekend.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tings-worried-by-presence-of-dominic-cummings

 

[drdel]

Does it not come out of our taxes then?

Of course where else do you think a Government gets its money? You will see in my post I did put the word free in single quotes to highlight the common inference/belief !!

 

[Old Skier]

Attendees of Sage meetings worried by presence of Cummings

Scientists on UK government’s coronavirus advisory group say Dominic Cummings was an active participant


The involvement of the prime minister’s chief political adviser, Dominic Cummings, in meetings of the scientific group advising the UK government’s response to the coronavirus has left other attendees shocked, concerned and worried for the impartiality of advice, the Guardian can reveal.

One attendee of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) said they felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process.

A second Sage attendee said they were shocked when Cummings first began participating in Sage discussions, in February, because they believed the group should be providing “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.

The Guardian’s revelation on Friday that Sage attendees have included Cummings and Ben Warner, who worked together on the Vote Leave campaign for Brexit, caused a storm of controversy over the weekend.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tings-worried-by-presence-of-dominic-cummings

You'd think the Guardian would have the decency to mention who these "shocked " scientists are or could it be scientists who were more shocked that they weren't selected to be on SAGE.

 

[Hobbit]

Attendees of Sage meetings worried by presence of Cummings

Scientists on UK government’s coronavirus advisory group say Dominic Cummings was an active participant


The involvement of the prime minister’s chief political adviser, Dominic Cummings, in meetings of the scientific group advising the UK government’s response to the coronavirus has left other attendees shocked, concerned and worried for the impartiality of advice, the Guardian can reveal.

One attendee of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) said they felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process.

A second Sage attendee said they were shocked when Cummings first began participating in Sage discussions, in February, because they believed the group should be providing “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.

The Guardian’s revelation on Friday that Sage attendees have included Cummings and Ben Warner, who worked together on the Vote Leave campaign for Brexit, caused a storm of controversy over the weekend.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tings-worried-by-presence-of-dominic-cummings

Why not post up the front page of the Sun too? Seriously, you're quoting a paper that is anti-Tory, and saying its all true? Do you see one named source? However, the article does name the person(attendee), Prof Ferguson, who doesn't feel there's anything wrong with Cummings being there. And the unnamed source... the tooth fairy?

Further down the article someone who perhaps would have a major axe to grind with Cummings, the ex-chancellor Sajid Javid, said he sees no problem with govt advisors attending and does have a poke at the media for sowing mistrust - I note you only quoted the bits that supported your argument... that kinda says something too.

And where is this storm of controversary? Plastered all over the Beeb and ITV? Wow, a silent tsunami of a storm really, this is the best evidence?