Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Ethan]

A word on safety in clinical in clinical trials. It is impossible to prove a negative. Nobody can ever prove that there is no risk.

Safety assessment is about probability. We saw X% of people had headaches in the vaccine group, X% in the placebo group, unlikely to be a vaccine-related effect on headache.

The problem comes when there is a rare event, because the statistical comparison is more difficult. One case of something obscure in one group, compared 2 or 3 cases in the other is more difficult to interpret.

Safety assessment is complicated and the correct approach is to consider benefit-risk, to the individual usually, but a degree of societal benefit too is usually considered for vaccines.

 

[Ethan]

Does anyone know why this would be the case(probably ethan is maybe the only one, failing that will have a hunt later, thanks if anyone knows) :-

To quote
'recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination. '

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 42 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Is this down to effectively the 'original sin' with immune system, I do appreciated that the antibodies we have get more mature/are the better ones over time and also there is alot more to the immune system than just antibodies).

It just doesn't sound good for obtaining a far better rounded immune response to infection after vaccination, if we aren't getting N ones as well ?

N antibodies reflect natural infection. I would take that quoted statement to mean that in people who are vaccinated, and subsequently get natural infection, a separate "natural" antibody response is less likely to be triggered, or is triggered at a lower alert level, because the immune system recognises there is already an effective defence in place.

 

[Ethan]

Bob, I think you're missing the point on this one IMO. I haven't heard of any babies that have been born with defects due to the vaccine however the feedback amongst pregnant women is that they've been told my medical professionals that the vaccine isn't advisable for them. Just because this advice then changes further down the line doesn't make the suddenly feel better in a lot of cases so they just don't risk it. These aren't women who have been getting advice off Facebook etc, these are ladies who were told by their GP/Midwife not to take it so can you really blame them for not being convinced when they're suddenly told it's okay to?

Medical professionals? Do you mean doctors? I doubt many doctors are saying that, because they are, to put it simply, wrong.

Midwives, maybe. They sometimes harbour traditional but wrong ideas about their chosen area of work - old midwives tales, if you like - but are not in a position to advise on vaccinations and should not be offering a view.

 

[DanFST]

Still unsure about masks where food and drink is concerned.

Watched a bit on the news in Belgium saying how good they were, present your pass then get a drink. Followed by taking the mask off to drink your beer, seems redundant.

 

[Ethan]

Still unsure about masks where food and drink is concerned.

Watched a bit on the news in Belgium saying how good they were, present your pass then get a drink. Followed by taking the mask off to drink your beer, seems redundant.

The most useful part of that procedure is presenting the pass. The mask is less necessary if everyone has a pass.

 

[IanM]

Medical professionals? Do you mean doctors? I doubt many doctors are saying that, because they are, to put it simply, wrong.

Midwives, maybe. They sometimes harbour traditional but wrong ideas about their chosen area of work - old midwives tales, if you like - but are not in a position to advise on vaccinations and should not be offering a view.

Next door is a midwife, her daughter a junior hospital doctor. Blimey she laid into another neighbour who refused their vaccine.

 

[road2ruin]

Medical professionals? Do you mean doctors? I doubt many doctors are saying that, because they are, to put it simply, wrong.

Midwives, maybe. They sometimes harbour traditional but wrong ideas about their chosen area of work - old midwives tales, if you like - but are not in a position to advise on vaccinations and should not be offering a view.

It was GP's although to be fair most of them were later on in pregnancy and this was further back but still, as a GP had told them they weren't so quick to change their thinking just because other things had changed in the meantime.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Next door is a midwife, her daughter a junior hospital doctor. Blimey she laid into another neighbour who refused their vaccine.

Vaccine police at times getting worse than the mask police

 

[BubbaP]

Find a walk in site here https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site

Maybe a geography thing, checked last night and none of the 12 listed were offering 3rd doses/boosters.

 

[bobmac]

Vaccine police at times getting worse than the mask police

I'm getting to the point when I don't care if they don't take the vaccine, I just hope they don't get infected and pass it on to others. And if they do get sick and need hospitalisation or an ICU unit, they can get to the back of the queue.
And if a venue requires vaccine passports and they haven't got one, tough, you don't get in.
Science has been advising everyone to get the vaccine all year, it's free, readily available and safe as vaccines can be but if they think they know better, with over 100,000 new UK cases in the last 2 days good luck, you're going to need it.

 

[fundy]

I'm getting to the point when I don't care if they don't take the vaccine, I just hope they don't get infected and pass it on to others. And if they do get sick and need hospitalisation or an ICU unit, they can get to the back of the queue.
And if a venue requires vaccine passports and they haven't got one, tough, you don't get in.
Science has been advising everyone to get the vaccine all year, it's free, readily available and safe as vaccines can be but if they think they know better, with over 100,000 new UK cases in the last 2 days good luck, you're going to need it.

Science (and the law) have been advising people not to take drugs for decades? they go to the back of the queue too? what about alcoholics? overeaters? anorexics? anyone who ignores any scientific advise on any other matter or just this one that youre going to change the rules for?

 

[Jamesbrown]

I'm getting to the point when I don't care if they don't take the vaccine, I just hope they don't get infected and pass it on to others. And if they do get sick and need hospitalisation or an ICU unit, they can get to the back of the queue.
And if a venue requires vaccine passports and they haven't got one, tough, you don't get in.
Science has been advising everyone to get the vaccine all year, it's free, readily available and safe as vaccines can be but if they think they know better, with over 100,000 new UK cases in the last 2 days good luck, you're going to need it.

The vaccine doesn’t prevent you passing it onto others.

People who don’t get the vaccine should should not get treatment? Shall we have the same for those with bad diets, overweight, smokers, speeders and those who like one two many tipples?
Penchant for a few tipples sir? No transplant liver for you! Off to the coffin you go!
Old? Over 65 and don’t work? No treatment don’t need you in society.
dangerous thoughts!

“As safe as vaccines can be”? That’s a bold statement considering people have died from having them. Maybe more so than other vaccines.

 

[D-S]

Seems apt.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1451478834788937732

 

[chellie]

Maybe a geography thing, checked last night and none of the 12 listed were offering 3rd doses/boosters.

The one where I had my booster shows no boosters on there. Wonder if it is correct?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Science (and the law) have been advising people not to take drugs for decades? they go to the back of the queue too? what about alcoholics? overeaters? anorexics? anyone who ignores any scientific advise on any other matter or just this one that youre going to change the rules for?

Yes, those who wilfully take drugs in the face of well known facts and advice and knowing it to be true, that it buggers them up: and then they bugger other people up.
And you think they shouldn't be at the back of the queue.
All they have to do is -Stop taking the drug.
Which is a world away from some poor souls, especially children, who are inflicted with an illness that no matter what they do, how hard they try, they will still suffer and die!
So....don't expect me to have sympathy for druggies!
And why folks ,like you , do ..is beyond me.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I'm getting to the point when I don't care if they don't take the vaccine, I just hope they don't get infected and pass it on to others. And if they do get sick and need hospitalisation or an ICU unit, they can get to the back of the queue.
And if a venue requires vaccine passports and they haven't got one, tough, you don't get in.
Science has been advising everyone to get the vaccine all year, it's free, readily available and safe as vaccines can be but if they think they know better, with over 100,000 new UK cases in the last 2 days good luck, you're going to need it.

Now don't get me wrong, if you are older, then at the moment its fairly crystal clear, get the vaccine on average.

Have we lost all nuance with our conversations.

What about :-

1) A young lad of say 18 and their risk (have you followed the science and other counties/studies with regards to them and what vaccines they should have ?)
2) Someone who has already had covid (have you followed the science and the various studies with regards to them ?)
3) How about an older vaccinated person of 80 who has a poor immune response, they run a much higher risk of being hospitalised by covid over a number of days/weeks and passing it on, than say a 20 year old who gets over covid in 2 days

At this time, as for restricting access to Hospitals, it something I would be happy to protest about, its just plain wrong, wrong wrong wrong. No conversation.

Life is about balancing harms, not one disease.

Surely you now know people who have caught the virus after vaccination and have passed it on to others, I certainly do ? (maybe less on average than non vaccinated but).

Sadly the end game is vaccinations and infections. This is going to unfold over the next 1-3 years its likely to be bumpy and then the unfolding will go for almost a 'generation', as humans and the virus continues to adapt.

We need to ram up the NHS to cope with the virus and the fall out of this(ie. the short term direct virus effects, the medium/long term damages effects and for the other services) . Yeah its pants.

 

[fundy]

Yes, those who wilfully take drugs in the face of well known facts and advice and knowing it to be true, that it buggers them up: and then they bugger other people up.
And you think they shouldn't be at the back of the queue.
All they have to do is -Stop taking the drug.
Which is a world away from some poor souls, especially children, who are inflicted with an illness that no matter what they do, how hard they try, they will still suffer and die!
So....don't expect me to have sympathy for druggies!
And why folks ,like you , do ..is beyond me.

Lol can you take my post anymore out of context? Another idiot to add to the list........

 

[Ethan]

The vaccine doesn’t prevent you passing it onto others.

People who don’t get the vaccine should should not get treatment? Shall we have the same for those with bad diets, overweight, smokers, speeders and those who like one two many tipples?
Penchant for a few tipples sir? No transplant liver for you! Off to the coffin you go!
Old? Over 65 and don’t work? No treatment don’t need you in society.
dangerous thoughts!

“As safe as vaccines can be”? That’s a bold statement considering people have died from having them. Maybe more so than other vaccines.

Wow, you criticise someone for making a bold statement and follow it by alleging that maybe more people have died from having the vaccine than others.

Could I see the data you used for that assertion?

And as Bob says below, it doesn't prevent, but it significantly reduces risk of transmission.

 

[bobmac]

Science (and the law) have been advising people not to take drugs for decades? they go to the back of the queue too? what about alcoholics? overeaters? anorexics? anyone who ignores any scientific advise on any other matter or just this one that youre going to change the rules for?

People with those disorders don't infect other people who could then go on to die.

The vaccine doesn’t prevent you passing it onto others.

The latest data shows vaxxed people are less likely to get infected and to infect others than the unvaxxed
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...us-vaccines-prevent-transmission-of-the-virus

People who don’t get the vaccine should should not get treatment?

I did not say that, I said get to the back of the queue.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Lol can you take my post anymore out of context? Another idiot to add to the list........

I'll let others judge whether my reply has taken your post out of context. To my mind, it speaks for itself.
As for name calling, I'll leave that to you.