Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

Liverpoolphil

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''There's no evidence the COVID-19 vaccines have any effect on your chances of becoming pregnant.''

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...rtility-and-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination/
No “evidence” is the key phrase , it’s also a vaccine that’s only been around for what 12 months - can you really say to a pregnant lady or someone trying to have a baby that in that short period there will be zero affects on an unborn or any potential fertility

It’s a very new vaccine and it will be in circulation for a long time and only then will people be able have full confidence in it - and for it to be claimed to be safe to all
 

Swinglowandslow

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It’s also worth remembering there will be plenty of people with valid concerns about the vaccine and it’s affects

Whilst it’s a small amount there are people who have had adverse reactions to the vaccine and there is no guarantee it’s 100% safe

I know there are pregnant ladies , ladies looking to get pregnant etc who haven’t had the vaccine because of the unknown effects it could have on unborn babies or fertility.
You having the flu vaccine?
There is no guarantee that any medicine is 100% safe.
However, people can choose......but ,if up to me, their choice would involve restrictions on what they could do.
Too much talk of rights, and not enough about responsibilities.
 

Liverpoolphil

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You having the flu vaccine?
There is no guarantee that any medicine is 100% safe.
However, people can choose......but ,if up to me, their choice would involve restrictions on what they could do.
Too much talk of rights, and not enough about responsibilities.
Yes I will have the flu vaccine just like I have done every year.

Would you be as flippant to the mother whose baby is born with a defect because of the vaccine ?

People need to understand that others have differing circumstances to them - and it’s not just because they are scared of bill gates controlling them.
 

bobmac

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can you really say to a pregnant lady or someone trying to have a baby that in that short period there will be zero affects on an unborn or any potential fertility
Of course not, I'm not qualified to give any advice.
But you've got to make your own decisions by talking to people who are.
The NHS is a good place to start (link above)

How about BUPA?
If you're trying for a baby, there is nothing in the current UK government guidance to say that you shouldn't have a COVID-19 vaccine.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/newsroom/ourviews/covid-affect-fertility

“There is no plausible reason — no medical or scientific mechanism — for this vaccine to interact with a woman’s reproductive organs or have any interaction with an egg that’s been released or fertilized.”

“While studies are ongoing, there is no data that the COVID-19 vaccines may cause infertility and no credible scientific theories for how the COVID-19 vaccine may cause female infertility,”
“Pregnant women get sicker when they get COVID compared to other people their age, and pregnant people with COVID are more likely to experience preterm delivery,” Morris said. “The effect of COVID disease on pregnancy is real, and it’s important to prevent.”

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/does-covid-19-vaccine-affect-fertility-heres-what-experts-say

Currently no evidence shows that any vaccines, including COVID-19 vaccines, cause fertility problems (problems trying to get pregnant) in women or men.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/planning-for-pregnancy.html

The science shows COVID vaccines have no effect on fertility, do not impact the chance of a miscarriage, and are safe and effective while pregnant.
https://theconversation.com/no-covid-19-vaccines-dont-affect-womens-fertility-168568
 

road2ruin

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Of course not, I'm not qualified to give any advice.
But you've got to make your own decisions by talking to people who are.
The NHS is a good place to start (link above)

How about BUPA?
If you're trying for a baby, there is nothing in the current UK government guidance to say that you shouldn't have a COVID-19 vaccine.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/newsroom/ourviews/covid-affect-fertility

“There is no plausible reason — no medical or scientific mechanism — for this vaccine to interact with a woman’s reproductive organs or have any interaction with an egg that’s been released or fertilized.”

“While studies are ongoing, there is no data that the COVID-19 vaccines may cause infertility and no credible scientific theories for how the COVID-19 vaccine may cause female infertility,”
“Pregnant women get sicker when they get COVID compared to other people their age, and pregnant people with COVID are more likely to experience preterm delivery,” Morris said. “The effect of COVID disease on pregnancy is real, and it’s important to prevent.”

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/does-covid-19-vaccine-affect-fertility-heres-what-experts-say

Currently no evidence shows that any vaccines, including COVID-19 vaccines, cause fertility problems (problems trying to get pregnant) in women or men.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/planning-for-pregnancy.html

The science shows COVID vaccines have no effect on fertility, do not impact the chance of a miscarriage, and are safe and effective while pregnant.
https://theconversation.com/no-covid-19-vaccines-dont-affect-womens-fertility-168568
The problem about the pregnancy issue is that even amongst the medical professionals (particularly midwives) there is still conflicting information. You only have to listen to radio phone ins on the subject with pregnant ladies who were told early on by their doctor not to have it and so when they're now told that it's safe they still have reservations. Others have been told by midwives that they wouldn't take it and so they don't. Even when the evidence showed that, on balance, it was save for pregnant women there was still mixed messaging going on and you really cannot blame some people for not being sold on the idea.
 
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bobmac

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You only have to listen to radio phone ins on the subject with pregnant ladies who were told early on by their doctor not to have it and so when they're now told that it's safe they still have reservations.

19th Aug 2021
The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) which is the professional association of pregnancy, childbirth, and women's reproductive and sexual health says that there is “no evidence” to suggest that the Covid-19 vaccines affect fertility. Similar statements have been issued by the British Fertility Association, the NHS and Public Health England.
 

road2ruin

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19th Aug 2021
The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) which is the professional association of pregnancy, childbirth, and women's reproductive and sexual health says that there is “no evidence” to suggest that the Covid-19 vaccines affect fertility. Similar statements have been issued by the British Fertility Association, the NHS and Public Health England.
You're quoting official advice however I'm telling you what I am listening to on the radio by pregnant women who are calling in to 5Live/LBC to explain why they are not getting jabbed. They were given information that the jab wasn't advisable and this was by their doctor/midwife and so when they're now told that it is safe they just aren't convinced enough. You may not think that's rational however a lot of pregnant women aren't completely rational (mine wasn't for large parts) and they'll do anything to keep their unborn baby safe and so when they're told something isn't safe but then is safe some will still err on the side of caution and not risk it. You can keep putting links up to say that it's safe but that obviously isn't getting through to a lot in that particular segment phoning these radio stations.
 

Liverpoolphil

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Of course not, I'm not qualified to give any advice.
But you've got to make your own decisions by talking to people who are.
The NHS is a good place to start (link above)

How about BUPA?
If you're trying for a baby, there is nothing in the current UK government guidance to say that you shouldn't have a COVID-19 vaccine.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/newsroom/ourviews/covid-affect-fertility

“There is no plausible reason — no medical or scientific mechanism — for this vaccine to interact with a woman’s reproductive organs or have any interaction with an egg that’s been released or fertilized.”

“While studies are ongoing, there is no data that the COVID-19 vaccines may cause infertility and no credible scientific theories for how the COVID-19 vaccine may cause female infertility,”
“Pregnant women get sicker when they get COVID compared to other people their age, and pregnant people with COVID are more likely to experience preterm delivery,” Morris said. “The effect of COVID disease on pregnancy is real, and it’s important to prevent.”

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/does-covid-19-vaccine-affect-fertility-heres-what-experts-say

Currently no evidence shows that any vaccines, including COVID-19 vaccines, cause fertility problems (problems trying to get pregnant) in women or men.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/planning-for-pregnancy.html

The science shows COVID vaccines have no effect on fertility, do not impact the chance of a miscarriage, and are safe and effective while pregnant.
https://theconversation.com/no-covid-19-vaccines-dont-affect-womens-fertility-168568
“whilst studies are ongoing”

Long way to go for people to be fully confident - unless you are in their situation then it’s going to be very hard to judge someone when a vaccine has been in play for such a short time.

it’s also worth remembering that I don’t believe there were many pregnant ladies included within clinical trials

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114466

“However, safety data on Covid-19 vaccination during pregnancy remain limited”

Right now studies are showing it’s safe but there is a long way to go

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....2021/oct/05/pregnant-women-not-taking-vaccine


it’s got to be very hard for a mother to take the vaccine right now

Understand that every single person has a different situation and outlook and reasons

There have been many cases in the past where initial studies have shown one thing and then later in life issues show up

Unless you can tell a pregnant lady that the vaccine is 100% safe for them then some will always have doubts
 

Blue in Munich

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19th Aug 2021
The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) which is the professional association of pregnancy, childbirth, and women's reproductive and sexual health says that there is “no evidence” to suggest that the Covid-19 vaccines affect fertility. Similar statements have been issued by the British Fertility Association, the NHS and Public Health England.
I can imagine there's a huge difference between affecting fertility and affecting pregnancy in the minds of ladies looking to start a family.
 

bluewolf

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How many cases of babies born with a defect because of the vaccine do you know of?
Can you not understand that some women will have a genuine concern regarding the vaccine? Whether you agree with them or not, they have concerns and are choosing to wait. We can probably all agree that there are other demographics that deserve our attention long before pregnant women!

As an aside, my wife is a Nurse. Specialising in pediatrics. Our main topic of conversation this week is regarding whether or not our 13yr old daughter should have the vaccine. I was for it. My wife was 50/50. Discussions like this are happening all over the country. I know several of my daughter's friends aren't having the jab. I may not agree with their decision, but I'm not going to tell them they're wrong as the decision is theirs to make and I understand their concerns...
 

road2ruin

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How many cases of babies born with a defect because of the vaccine do you know of?
Bob, I think you're missing the point on this one IMO. I haven't heard of any babies that have been born with defects due to the vaccine however the feedback amongst pregnant women is that they've been told my medical professionals that the vaccine isn't advisable for them. Just because this advice then changes further down the line doesn't make the suddenly feel better in a lot of cases so they just don't risk it. These aren't women who have been getting advice off Facebook etc, these are ladies who were told by their GP/Midwife not to take it so can you really blame them for not being convinced when they're suddenly told it's okay to?
 

Liverpoolphil

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How many cases of babies born with a defect because of the vaccine do you know of?
Can you really not see any concerns that a pregnant lady could have right now ? A vaccine that has only been in play since Jan ? Do you really think that’s long enough for the full affects of it all to be known for every single case ?
 

bobmac

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A bunch of men arguing about what women should do with their bodies when considering/having a baby.
The bottom line is it's their decision.
I only hope that they make that vital decision based on the most up to date scientific data they can find and let's all hope mother and baby do well.
 

Swinglowandslow

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Bob, I think you're missing the point on this one IMO. I haven't heard of any babies that have been born with defects due to the vaccine however the feedback amongst pregnant women is that they've been told my medical professionals that the vaccine isn't advisable for them. Just because this advice then changes further down the line doesn't make the suddenly feel better in a lot of cases so they just don't risk it. These aren't women who have been getting advice off Facebook etc, these are ladies who were told by their GP/Midwife not to take it so can you really blame them for not being convinced when they're suddenly told it's okay to?
Yes I totally see the point you are making here. It is valid .

Of course , I can see too where the midwife would not say it is safe to have the vaccine. But that is not saying " it may be unsafe to take the vaccine."
This is a matter of precise English, possibly.
If you were a Dr or midwife, early on in the vaccine programme, and your lady patient asked you, e.g. "If I take this vaccine can you say it's is definitely not going to be risky for my baby if I am pregnant?"
No Dr or midwife can or would say yes to that. Because they would be held to that.
They would say they weren't vaccine experts, but to listen to what the vaccine experts advise.
That is not the same as answering, " I am advising not to take it."
Or 'it might not be safe to take it'

But , I can see, if a lady thinks her Dr is hesitant about it, then that becomes a doubt.
 

DRW

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Does anyone know why this would be the case(probably ethan is maybe the only one, failing that will have a hunt later, thanks if anyone knows(y)) :-

To quote
'recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination. '

COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 42 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Is this down to effectively the 'original sin' with immune system, I do appreciated that the antibodies we have get more mature/are the better ones over time and also there is alot more to the immune system than just antibodies).

It just doesn't sound good for obtaining a far better rounded immune response to infection after vaccination, if we aren't getting N ones as well ?
 

Ethan

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It’s also worth remembering there will be plenty of people with valid concerns about the vaccine and it’s affects

Whilst it’s a small amount there are people who have had adverse reactions to the vaccine and there is no guarantee it’s 100% safe

I know there are pregnant ladies , ladies looking to get pregnant etc who haven’t had the vaccine because of the unknown effects it could have on unborn babies or fertility.
A worrying number of those younger people in hospitals and ICU with Covid are those pregnant ladies. There is no guarantee that the vaccine is safe, but equally there is no plausible or demonstrated effect that it should pose a risk. mRNA does not cross the placenta.

There is excellent evidence that Covid is bad for pregnant ladies and their fetuses.
 

GB72

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Interesting to see a story that fully vaccinated for getting a vaccine passport may well include those who are elegible having all 3 jabs. Hopefully a further incentive.
 

D-S

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I see that case rates in Wales are amongst in the highest yet I think they have a mask mandate indoors? Is this a case of non compliance? (only popped over there once in the last few months so have no evidence).
 

Ethan

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A word on safety in clinical in clinical trials. It is impossible to prove a negative. Nobody can ever prove that there is no risk.

Safety assessment is about probability. We saw X% of people had headaches in the vaccine group, X% in the placebo group, unlikely to be a vaccine-related effect on headache.

The problem comes when there is a rare event, because the statistical comparison is more difficult. One case of something obscure in one group, compared 2 or 3 cases in the other is more difficult to interpret.

Safety assessment is complicated and the correct approach is to consider benefit-risk, to the individual usually, but a degree of societal benefit too is usually considered for vaccines.
 
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