Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Old Skier]

For your dad, aged 70? It's over 50's now. Okay, if that is what the system says ?‍

Will obviously depend on when he had his second jab

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You are quite right on the semantics.

The study you mention has been widely misinterpreted, and I have moaned about it several times here.

The study showed that in (important qualifier) people who got Covid, viral load was roughly similar whether they were vaccinated or not. In fact, the viral load was lower, but the bigger issue was that people who were vaccinated were a lot less likely to get Covid in the first place. This critical element was missed by many. The paper was picked up by anti-vaxxers to argue that vaccination did not reduce transmission when it said nothing of the sort.

This is what I deduced, but listening to Maajid Nawaz on LBC he is strongly citing the study findings of ‘equal transmission’ whether vaccinated or not as grounds for opposing vaccine passports…and I just wasn’t getting it (hence my ‘simple’ step-by-step questions that you kindly answered fully). His insistence and conclusions on transmission on an individual basis may be well founded by the study, but do not apply for a population.

 

[SocketRocket]

Professor James Naismith of the Rosalind Franklin Institute and a biologist at Oxford University believes Britain is over the worst of Covid in terms of case numbers and as infections continue to fall, so too will hospitalisations and deaths, which currently stand at more than 1,000 a day and 1,000 a week respectively.

Really!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

''People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

“They absolutely do reduce transmission,” says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”
23/10/21
Interpret that how you will

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...d-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/#ixzz7BdympMT4

Except there is the study that claims the transmission is the same...but I think the confusion is that the misinterpreted study draws conclusions assuming the same level of viral load in a vaccinated and unvaccinated individual.

Anyway…I won’t try to interpret further what Ethan has advised and your linked article as I shall start falling down the rabbit hole I have just climbed out of ?

 

[Ethan]

This is what I deduced, but listening to Maajid Nawaz on LBC he is strongly citing the study findings of ‘equal transmission’ whether vaccinated or not as grounds for opposing vaccine passports…and I just wasn’t getting it (hence my ‘simple’ step-by-step questions that you kindly answered fully). His insistence and conclusions on transmission on an individual basis may be well founded by the study, but do not apply for a population.

He is wrong, and he probably knows it, but lying seems to be OK these days so long as people believe you.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

We have tried, it says you need to wait your turn basically.

Tried here also. Online. Not good. Got to a centre, chose several days and time combinations, one after another. Each time it said unavaible, but beforvselection of time it was saying those times were available ?
Frustrating, being polite

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The good news from my perspective is the numbers coming into ICU are holding steady. The bad news is all of those in are unvaccinated as have they have been from all our recent deaths from Covid and it appears that those coming in unvaccinated are seeing significant lung damage.

 

[larmen]

The good news from my perspective is the numbers coming into ICU are holding steady. The bad news is all of those in are unvaccinated as have they have been from all our recent deaths from Covid and it appears that those coming in unvaccinated are seeing significant lung damage.

How is that bad news? It seems preventable and therefore good news?

 

[D-S]

Really!
View attachment 39406

All depends when you choose to look at the numbers

 

[Baldy Bouncer]

Booster jab booked in for the 19th November.
Then out that evening for the Mens annual prize presentation at the Golf Club, happy days.

 

[Leftitshort]

All depends when you choose to look at the numbers
View attachment 39410

The misinformation around covid is scary on both sides. Anyone who wants a true picture really has to look quite hard for it. It’s become politicised & monetised now.
the below isn’t making a specific point but more to illustrate

https://fullfact.org/health/amanda-pritchard-nhs-hospitalisations/

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Booster jab booked in for the 19th November.
Then out that evening for the Mens annual prize presentation at the Golf Club, happy days.

Do you think such an indoor gathering is wise at this time, bearing in mind the numbers re Covid. It hasn't gone away.!

 

[Ethan]

The misinformation around covid is scary on both sides. Anyone who wants a true picture really has to look quite hard for it. It’s become politicised & monetised now.
the below isn’t making a specific point but more to illustrate

https://fullfact.org/health/amanda-pritchard-nhs-hospitalisations/

Are you equating the anti-vaxx propaganda with the scientific community's comments and publications?

 

[SocketRocket]

All depends when you choose to look at the numbers
View attachment 39410

Or where, your showing a different area. The graph I posted is for my area which has been historically one of the lowest in the country.

 

[drdel]

Are you equating the anti-vaxx propaganda with the scientific community's comments and publications?

I think conversations in the media seem to ignore two factors: the physics of transmission v the reaction to viral infection.

In the first instance the probability and viral load are driven by prevelence, proximity and time of exposure: variables directly unaffected by vaccination.

The vaccination only influences the severity of any resultant illness. It may influence the duration and perhaps the rate a person may 'transmit' the virus to others.

So my analogy is if driving what's the chances of being in a crash and then how severe are your injuries, if any?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think conversations in the media seem to ignore two factors: the physics of transmission v the reaction to viral infection.

In the first instance the probability and viral load are driven by prevelence, proximity and time of exposure: variables directly unaffected by vaccination.

The vaccination only influences the severity of any resultant illness. It may influence the duration and perhaps the rate a person may 'transmit' the virus to others.

So my analogy is if driving what's the chances of being in a crash and then how severe are your injuries, if any?

You see, as I understand things I don’t think that this is correct. My understanding is that being vaccinated reduces (perhaps not by that much but nonetheless…) the likelihood of picking up the virus as well as reducing the severity of any illness arising from picking up the virus.

But I accept that I may have got that wrong.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

The misinformation around covid is scary on both sides. Anyone who wants a true picture really has to look quite hard for it. It’s become politicised & monetised now.
the below isn’t making a specific point but more to illustrate

https://fullfact.org/health/amanda-pritchard-nhs-hospitalisations/

There has been some absolutely brain freeze moments during this pandemic. Always made me wonder when everyone was picking on people meeting outside as it could be seen, instead people will just take meeting inside, out of sight. DOH. Nice scotch egg with your drink and so on

By so called public health people, take this one recently :-

Rochelle Walensky, MD, MPH on Twitter: "Masks can help reduce your chance of #COVID19 infection by more than 80%. Masks also help protect from other illnesses like common cold and flu. Wearing a mask- along w/ getting vaccinated- are important steps to stay healthy. #WeCanDoThis @HHSgov https://t.co/bfOV5VzBpq https://t.co/6DGj8nwPgD" / Twitter

She is effectively saying they are more effective than some Vaccines at stopping infections......talk about giving out the wrong messages about masks > vaccines. DOH! Also If masks stopped 80% of the spread in the public, we would see it in real life, plain as site on graphs, in fact it would be so obvious that it would slap you in the face. But of course the masks that we wear are pants and often not worn in risky situations.

Also the recent ONS tweet, makes you wonder whats it all about :-

Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Twitter: "The age-adjusted risk of deaths involving #COVID19 was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals between 2 Jan and 24 Sept 2021 https://t.co/P6ZSC2OrxI https://t.co/AMmkw6RpHZ" / Twitter

Do people actually believe the above tweets and surely they only help to destroy belief in what the 'officials/scientists' say generally. I know it makes me question what the officials say more and more.

 

[D-S]

Or where, your showing a different area. The graph I posted is for my area which has been historically one of the lowest in the country.

And the graph that I showed was for my area….

Maybe it would be better to give a broader view (the whole of the UK), which would be more helpful for many:-

 

[Swinglowandslow]

You see, as I understand things I don’t think that this is correct. My understanding is that being vaccinated reduces (perhaps not by that much but nonetheless…) the likelihood of picking up the virus as well as reducing the severity of any illness arising from picking up the virus.

But I accept that I may have got that wrong.

H, I went back and read post 21853-Ethan's.
As I understand it, a "person "is less likely to pick up the virus from a vaccinated person, because that vaccinated person will shed less viral load when they breath /cough on him, than if an unvaxxed did the same thing
(Other factors being equal).
If that "person" (receiving the viral load) is unvaccinated, then the virus will replicate unhindered.
However, if that "person " is vaccinated, then the virus will not replicate as much and the person will be less ill, if at all if the initial viral load isn't sufficient to "take hold"
In turn, vaccinated people who do have the virus about them will not spread it as easily because their breath /sneeze/droplets do not have the viral load as much as an unvaccinated person. Thus it's fair to say they spread it less.

If this is not correct, hopefully Ethan will rectify it?

 

[SocketRocket]

And the graph that I showed was for my area….

Maybe it would be better to give a broader view (the whole of the UK), which would be more helpful for many:-
View attachment 39429

I think the small reduction in infections recently was due to the half term school holiday. We will see how the trend goes over the next few weeks.