Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

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Vaccine passports not the way we do things in the UK; they are not the British way…until they are…but only for some contexts, but we can’t say which…consistent, cautious, coordinated or just confused…

Never mind…we all know who is going to be blamed if this experiment goes wrong…and that is what it is because whilst we have to date not been alone in our attempts to tackle the pandemic - and like others we have got some things right and some things wrong…in what we are doing now - we are alone.

BTW - to paint what we are doing at the moment as somehow indicative of the ‘UK leading the world‘ and something we should be proud of (as I heard claimed this morning) is to me disingenuous in the extreme. But that ‘d’ verges in P-land and so I will desist from further comment on it further than that it affects me and so clarity is important.
 
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Ethan

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I'm not sure whether you are being deliberately obtuse or whether it's just an early start on a Monday morning however you are completely missing my point. If you take a moment to go back and have a read you will see that I have, at no point, said that all masks do not work. I have said that CLOTH MASKS do not work and this was based on SAGE adviser Colin Axon:

Standard face coverings are just "comfort blankets" that do little to reduce the spread of Covid particles, a scientist advising Sage on ventilation has said.

Dr Colin Axon, who has advised the government on minimising the risk of cross-infection in supermarkets, accused medics of presenting a "cartoonish" view of how how tiny particles travel through the air.

He warned some cloth masks have gaps which are invisible to the naked eye, but are 500,000 times the size of viral Covid particles.

As you can see, this isn't Dr Steve from Facebook this is from someone qualified to comment.

Your post giving the information on N95 mask is all very interesting and is probably correct but again it is completely irrelevant in proving me wrong as your using a different mask and it's efficacy as a completely different example, some might say to suit your argument and point of view.
Lots of people, some credible. others less so, have "advised" SAGE. Axon is not, however, on SAGE or any of its known subcommittees, and SAGE appear not to have adopted his ideas. Maybe you should follow their lead, not his self-publicising blogs. He has a sneering attitude that should raise a red flag over his opinions.

Another basic principle of science is that you approach a scientific question with an open mind, some degree of obecjtivity. Axon's fevered blog suggests he has long since abandoned that position. He should therefore be ignored because he is no longer really a scientist, he is a lobbyist.

Dr Steve, Professor at the University of Facebook knows that there is more than the simple mechanics of a sterile lab experiment on particle size to the determination of risk and benefit of masks. Listen to Steve.
 
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drdel

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Vaccine passports not the way we do things in the UK; they are not the British way…until they are…but only for some contexts, but we can’t say which…consistent, cautious, coordinated or just confused…

Never mind…we all know who is going to be blamed if this experiment goes wrong…and that is what it is because whilst we have to date not been alone in our attempts to tackle the pandemic - and like others we have got some things right and some things wrong…in what we are doing now we are alone.

BTW - to paint what we are doing at the moment as somehow indicative of the ‘UK leading the world‘ and something we should be proud of as I heard claimed this morning is to me disingenuous in the extreme. But that ‘d’ verges in P-land and so I will desist from further comment on it.
You must get really stressed by trying to politise without being politicising ;)
 

DRW

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You must get really stressed by trying to politise without being politicising ;)
I do not try and politicise when the issue of consistency and clarity is important to me and impacts me quite significantly - it is not a political or theoretical concern - it is a real and personally impacting concern about which this thread is all about. That some would rather not have to discuss the root of such confusions is their problem not mine.
 

road2ruin

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Lots of people, some credible. others less so, have "advised" SAGE. Axon is not, however, on SAGE or any of its known subcommittees, and SAGE appear not to have adopted his ideas. Maybe you should follow their lead, not his self-publicising blogs. He has a sneering attitude that should raise a red flag over his opinions.

Another basic principle of science is that you approach a scientific question with an open mind, some degree of obecjtivity. Axon's fevered blog suggests he has long since abandoned that position. He should therefore be ignored because he is no longer really a scientist, he is a lobbyist.

Dr Steve, Professor at the University of Facebook knows that there is more than the simple mechanics of a sterile lab experiment on particle size to the determination of risk and benefit of masks. Listen to Steve.
I don't read his blog, I read this in a mainstream newspaper.
 

GreiginFife

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I might be missing something here but that first set of graphs is not that great. more % hospitalisations of over 50s double vaxxed than none or one <21 days. That's not a brilliant ad for the vax if I am reading that right...
 

DRW

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I might be missing something here but that first set of graphs is not that great. more % hospitalisations of over 50s double vaxxed than none or one <21 days. That's not a brilliant ad for the vax if I am reading that right...
Not sure I quite follow as it shows 16% of one dose vaxxed population lead to 23% of hospitalisations, whereas 79% of fully vaxxed of population lead to 43% of hospitalisations in that age group for that time frame, so a much lower percentage.

Are you comparing hospitalisations to cases to guess at effectiveness which you can not do easily from those figures ? I also would guess that the one dose people are likely to be the younger people in that age grouping, so would potentially be less likely to be hospitalised, than the older people who were double jabbed first. The number of cases to population is a figure involved for effectiveness & hospitalisations and a point to note is that there is much lower cases in double jabbed when compared to single jabbed or non jab vs population %, so the double jab is doing a better job at blocking cases completely. There are other factors which would change the figures.

This data will also be a bit noisy to start with, as the numbers(of hospitalisations) involved were fairly low with this report if you read the report.

BTW The vaccine only reduces the risk based on your existing age/conditions risk profile, so for an example a 20 year old non vaxxed person , is less likely to be hospitalised than a fully vaxxed 80 year old (on average). Hospitalisations and deaths are always going to be in the main be in the older/higher risk groups, even if fully vaxxed. We need to accept that is going to be the case :(

These graphs are not providing details of effectiveness, as they are not comparing that. If you want that there are PHE reports and there are also reports now coming from Canada that are issued regularly, if it is something that interests you, they detail effectiveness and both countries show all vaccines being super effective at stopping hospitalisations. Can put up the links or prints if interested of those.
 

GreiginFife

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Not sure I quite follow as it shows 16% of one dose vaxxed population lead to 23% of hospitalisations, whereas 79% of fully vaxxed of population lead to 43% of hospitalisations in that age group for that time frame, so a much lower percentage.

Are you comparing hospitalisations to cases to guess at effectiveness which you can not do easily from those figures ? I also would guess that the one dose people are likely to be the younger people in that age grouping, so would potentially be less likely to be hospitalised, than the older people who were double jabbed first. The number of cases to population is a figure involved for effectiveness & hospitalisations and a point to note is that there is much lower cases in double jabbed when compared to single jabbed or non jab vs population %, so the double jab is doing a better job at blocking cases completely. There are other factors which would change the figures.

This data will also be a bit noisy to start with, as the numbers(of hospitalisations) involved were fairly low with this report if you read the report.

BTW The vaccine only reduces the risk based on your existing age/conditions risk profile, so for an example a 20 year old non vaxxed person , is less likely to be hospitalised than a fully vaxxed 80 year old (on average). Hospitalisations and deaths are always going to be in the main be in the older/higher risk groups, even if fully vaxxed. We need to accept that is going to be the case :(

These graphs are not providing details of effectiveness, as they are not comparing that. If you want that there are PHE reports and there are also reports now coming from Canada that are issued regularly, if it is something that interests you, they detail effectiveness and both countries show all vaccines being super effective at stopping hospitalisations. Can put up the links or prints if interested of those.
As I say, I just glanced over it and probably read it wrong.
 

Ethan

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To boil it down a bit, 5% of the population over 50 are unvaccinated and contribute 34% of admissions, 79% over 50 are double vaccinated and contribute 43% of admissions
Under 50 46% unvax'd contribute 87% of admissions, 21% under 50 double vac'd contribute 4%.

So in the over 50 group, vaccination reduces risk of hospitalisation from 34/5 (6.8:1) to 50/79 (0.63:1). That is a 91% reduction.
Under 50, 87/46 is 1.89:1 (so right away you see the effect of age on risk), 4/21 is 0.19, so 90% reduction.

One vax is somewhere in the middle.
 
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Ethan

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Not sure I quite follow as it shows 16% of one dose vaxxed population lead to 23% of hospitalisations, whereas 79% of fully vaxxed of population lead to 43% of hospitalisations in that age group for that time frame, so a much lower percentage.

Are you comparing hospitalisations to cases to guess at effectiveness which you can not do easily from those figures ? I also would guess that the one dose people are likely to be the younger people in that age grouping, so would potentially be less likely to be hospitalised, than the older people who were double jabbed first. The number of cases to population is a figure involved for effectiveness & hospitalisations and a point to note is that there is much lower cases in double jabbed when compared to single jabbed or non jab vs population %, so the double jab is doing a better job at blocking cases completely. There are other factors which would change the figures.

This data will also be a bit noisy to start with, as the numbers(of hospitalisations) involved were fairly low with this report if you read the report.

BTW The vaccine only reduces the risk based on your existing age/conditions risk profile, so for an example a 20 year old non vaxxed person , is less likely to be hospitalised than a fully vaxxed 80 year old (on average). Hospitalisations and deaths are always going to be in the main be in the older/higher risk groups, even if fully vaxxed. We need to accept that is going to be the case :(

These graphs are not providing details of effectiveness, as they are not comparing that. If you want that there are PHE reports and there are also reports now coming from Canada that are issued regularly, if it is something that interests you, they detail effectiveness and both countries show all vaccines being super effective at stopping hospitalisations. Can put up the links or prints if interested of those.
See my analysis above. The vax definitely works.

You are right that age is a massive driver of admission risk. An older person who gets Covid despite vaccination may still have a mild rot moderate illness, but added to their respiratory or renal condition, may be enough to put them in hospital, but it probably won't put them in ICU. Without the vax it may have been enough to put them in the ground. Younger people have a lot more reserve to absorb the effects of a mild to moderate illness without hospitalisation.
 

Ethan

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What can I say? Through my work in the Asbestos industry I know about masks.

Anyway you might want to get yourself checked, I think you have caught a dose of Dr Axon’s “Sneering attitude” 😂😂😂
Well you have certainly been caught in his gullible follower net. Axon is a raging self-publicist, but you don't know who I am at all. Hardly self-publicising. Axon had a go at doctors in his piece, presumably because his arguments couldn't stand on their own legs.

Sorry if I am impatient with stupid and spurious arguments, especially when repeated as if that somehow makes them better. It doesn't.
 

theoneandonly

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Well you have certainly been caught in his gullible follower net. Axon is a raging self-publicist, but you don't know who I am at all. Hardly self-publicising. Axon had a go at doctors in his piece, presumably because his arguments couldn't stand on their own legs.

Sorry if I am impatient with stupid and spurious arguments, especially when repeated as if that somehow makes them better. It doesn't.
Seeing you accuse someone of having a sneering attitude did make me chuckle. You do have some balls i'll give you that 😂😂😂😂
 
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