• We'd like to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas from all at Golf Monthly. Thank you for sharing your 2025 with us!

Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

DRW said:
I assume you realise true aerosol(not big spit droplets), stays in the air for hours and floats around on air movement and does not readily fall to the ground . Like fine dust does that you can see in sunrays or smoke inside, hours in the air. The slightly bigger aerosols, slowly evaporate over time and still remain in the air and most of what exhale is aerosol btw. Only the spit kind fall to the ground.

You are kidding yourself if you think the kind of masks people are wearing in the community are really helping with aerosols. Thankfully some people wear better masks.

You also need to think about the law of unintended consequences....

Went to get jab, forced to stand in the same place as the last person wearing a mask. So I breath in their exhaled air in the same spot. Goto hospital forced to take off a N99 mask and put on a surgical mask. No windows open. You cant make it up, even from places that should know better.

The only thing that interests me with a mask, is how much does it filter the virus from the breath and keep in the filter for the length of time the wearer wears it. How many people actually wear them properly and use them properly.

These are all reasons that masks used in the community have never really been proved to help under any kind of RCT and the science evidence is weak. Masks got political and were mandated. If you think RCT in the community has shown different, please put up the link, I think science is great, love to see such a larger scale RCT in the community and would happy to change my opinion on masks, as I am not so entrenched with my opinions not to flex them?

I would go as far to say I wouldn't even wear the kind of N99 I wear to do car spraying or loft insulation or handling the grey boards on garage roofs, they are really a poor seal and probably pretty useless as well in filter that much of the virus for you or me the wearer imho.
Click to expand...
Here you are then

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-91487-7#Fig1
 
Guess this whole having to self isolate thing has hit home a little more today. Restaurant booked for wife's birthday in York on Friday have had to cancel becuase staff have had to isolate due to a positive contact. Really can see how easy it is to shut down a whole business due to pings from the NHS app. Not sure I know whether these things are for the best or not but it does show how quickly it can have an impact.
 
DRW said:
Thats not a RCT in the community or anywhere tbh? :unsure:
Click to expand...
The point in question was wether masks are effective in the reduction of aerosol and droplet particles of breath. That in depth study shows they are very effective in both cases. You suggested they were not effective in preventing aerosol particles, do you accept the findings of this research study?
 
Last edited:
theoneandonly said:
I'd be OK with masks being kept mandatory in shops and public transport for a while longer, elswhere they seem a little pointless.
Click to expand...

I think that is pretty much how I feel. Honestly, if it would help going forward, I would be happy doing that through flu seaseon as well. No hardship really in that.
 
SocketRocket said:
The point in question was neither masks are effective in the reduction of aerosol and droplet particles of breath. That in depth study shows they are very effective in both cases. You suggested they were not effective in preventing aerosol particles, do you accept the findings of this research study?
Click to expand...

Oh I dont dispute what the article shows. The talking and coughing activities(doesnt seem to show breathing) and the surgical masks catching some of the virus.

I put above :-

You are kidding yourself if you think the kind of masks people are wearing in the community are really helping with aerosols. Thankfully some people wear better masks.

Dont see how how what I have said disagrees with that link(snoods and paper masks are not surgical masks btw). Either way, I am not disputing what that link shows.(y)

Out of interest do you think that aerosols fall to the ground and can not can travel around a whole room on air movements, which what you said before(unless I read it wrong)?

There are various mask RCTs done in the community(&healthcare settings) pre 2020, and all that I have seen do not provide strong evidence masks help in the community. RCT is kind of the gold standard something working in real life, assuming it is setup right, science tends to follows a clear pattern :-
1.jpg

Anyway all the best, dont really have anything more to add. Clearly I believe masks work, as wear them for things like car spraying, loft insulation, N99s inside and so on. I love a good mask chat, as it splits opinions for covid :LOL:
 
theoneandonly said:
I'd be OK with masks being kept mandatory in shops and public transport for a while longer, elswhere they seem a little pointless.
Click to expand...

The cynic in me says that the only reason that masks were even made mandatory was that in July everything was opened up and the Govt had done such a good job of scaring people that large numbers felt too scared to leave the house. Masks were used as a placebo to encourage people to venture out with a bit of a security blanket!!

That said I don't have a particular issue using one in shops or on public transport if I was advised, it's not the end of the world.
 
GB72 said:
Guess this whole having to self isolate thing has hit home a little more today. Restaurant booked for wife's birthday in York on Friday have had to cancel because staff have had to isolate due to a positive contact. Really can see how easy it is to shut down a whole business due to pings from the NHS app. Not sure I know whether these things are for the best or not but it does show how quickly it can have an impact.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much self isolation will actually happen now, especially amongst those who have had 2 jabs (and 2 weeks) who have been told that in a months time they will not have to. In the situation whereby you have an event and then get pinged by the app or contacted by track and trace is the compliance going to suffer?
 
road2ruin said:
I wonder how much self isolation will actually happen now, especially amongst those who have had 2 jabs (and 2 weeks) who have been told that in a months time they will not have to. In the situation whereby you have an event and then get pinged by the app or contacted by track and trace is the compliance going to suffer?
Click to expand...
With the projected number of infections there is going to be a very large number of people needing to self isolate which will create quite a lot of disruption to services and business.
 
SocketRocket said:
With the projected number of infections there is going to be a very large number of people needing to self isolate which will create quite a lot of disruption to services and business.
Click to expand...

The suggestion is that it could be 4-5 million contacts that are asked to isolate, I just wanted how many of them will actually do that especially those who are double jabbed and know that in a couple of weeks they would not be required to do so. An example would be that the school holidays start in a couple of weeks, what happens in the first week of August if you are off on holiday but one of you is asked to isolate. Are people going to listen to that knowing that in a short period after that requirement will be removed. My feeling is that a fair number will probably not bother.
 
Pro at Edzell was telling us yesterday a guy came in the shop with no mask for the senior open earlier, then complained about having to wear a mask when he was asked to put one on. After complying he asked to be checked in and said his mate so and so wouldn't be coming..
He had covid...
:rolleyes::censored:
 
road2ruin said:
The suggestion is that it could be 4-5 million contacts that are asked to isolate, I just wanted how many of them will actually do that especially those who are double jabbed and know that in a couple of weeks they would not be required to do so. An example would be that the school holidays start in a couple of weeks, what happens in the first week of August if you are off on holiday but one of you is asked to isolate. Are people going to listen to that knowing that in a short period after that requirement will be removed. My feeling is that a fair number will probably not bother.
Click to expand...

Letting contacts who have been double vax'd plus 2 weeks to skip isolation is a sensible and proportionate step, in my opinion. Likewise travellers from amber countries. They could also have scrapped masks and social distancing outdoors. Never really was needed.

Indoors is where the problems arise. Scrapping masks and social distancing indoors at the same time as capacity controls is taking a big risk.
 
DRW said:
Oh I dont dispute what the article shows. The talking and coughing activities(doesnt seem to show breathing) and the surgical masks catching some of the virus.

I put above :-

You are kidding yourself if you think the kind of masks people are wearing in the community are really helping with aerosols. Thankfully some people wear better masks.

Dont see how how what I have said disagrees with that link(snoods and paper masks are not surgical masks btw). Either way, I am not disputing what that link shows.(y)

Out of interest do you think that aerosols fall to the ground and can not can travel around a whole room on air movements, which what you said before(unless I read it wrong)?

There are various mask RCTs done in the community(&healthcare settings) pre 2020, and all that I have seen do not provide strong evidence masks help in the community. RCT is kind of the gold standard something working in real life, assuming it is setup right, science tends to follows a clear pattern :-
View attachment 37412

Anyway all the best, dont really have anything more to add. Clearly I believe masks work, as wear them for things like car spraying, loft insulation, N99s inside and so on. I love a good mask chat, as it splits opinions for covid :LOL:
Click to expand...


I design RCTs for a living, was just doing one a short time ago, and I agree they represent the gold standard for specific clinical questions. However, that does not mean that an RCT is always the most suitable study design, or is feasible (or ethical) and other forms of evidence can make a case for something to be the cause of the effect of interest.

Studies of masks don't lend themselves to RCTs because you can't really offer a blinded placebo version. Also, measuring transmissibility is tricky because you can't track who was infected unless you follow the trial subject around and literally record every interaction with another human (then consent them to get their medical information), track what happens to them, and note every time the subject touches a doorknob after sneezing into their hand but mot washing, and then who touches it. None of the vaccine studies measured transmissibility for that reason.

The evidence for masks comes from a combination of observations - that the mask impedes (perhaps not entirely, but to some degree) the flow of certain particles (sneeze studies, basically). Then you have evidence on ithe amount of virus needed to trigger an infection (viral load), you look at infection rates in people who wear masks or who don't wear masks, and also compare regions or countries where mask wearing is high or low. These pieces of evidence add up, and then if you consider the risks, which are few, it seems like a kind of a no-brainer. It seems unlikely that in Vietnam, mask wearing, which is very high and other public health measures, did not contribute to a death rate almost 2000 times lower than the UK (1 per million vs almost 1900 per million). And before you ask, it is a more populous country and has a higher population density than the UK and the data systems in their health system are good.
 
Ethan said:
Letting contacts who have been double vax'd plus 2 weeks to skip isolation is a sensible and proportionate step, in my opinion. Likewise travellers from amber countries. They could also have scrapped masks and social distancing outdoors. Never really was needed.

Indoors is where the problems arise. Scrapping masks and social distancing indoors at the same time as capacity controls is taking a big risk.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. I was just wondering out loud about how many of those people will continue to isolate over the next few weeks especially with the start of the summer holidays still being within the period that everyone is meant to self isolate for 10 days if requested. If you are especially unlucky you might be told to isolate for 10 days when you were off on holiday the next day even though in a week's time you wouldn't have to isolate if that makes sense. I'm not convinced I would miss my holiday in those circumstances.
 
road2ruin said:
I wonder how much self isolation will actually happen now, especially amongst those who have had 2 jabs (and 2 weeks) who have been told that in a months time they will not have to. In the situation whereby you have an event and then get pinged by the app or contacted by track and trace is the compliance going to suffer?
Click to expand...
I had my 2nd jab two weeks ago today, I can now attend mass trial events. Why on earth should I, or anyone else in the same boat, have to wait until next month to not need to isolate? More than happy to do daily testing if need be but ff they think I'm losing two weeks wages despite being fully protected they're going to be disappointed.
 
SaintHacker said:
I had my 2nd jab two weeks ago today, I can now attend mass trial events. Why on earth should I, or anyone else in the same boat, have to wait until next month to not need to isolate? More than happy to do daily testing if need be but ff they think I'm losing two weeks wages despite being fully protected they're going to be disappointed.
Click to expand...
You aren’t fully protected with two jabs and could still pass it on to many others.
 
Hobbit said:
Why “No?” It’s working here. Prices have gone up but not massively so. I just don’t ‘get’ the negativity. People are wearing masks when they’re going into places and then taking them off when they sit down. People are accepting the increases in pricing. People are accepting the numbers allowed in - why? Because they have no choice.

You believe it wouldn’t work. I’ve been seeing it work for over a year. We’ve operated under similar restrictions for month and months. 3 months ago it was max 4 at a table inside, then 6 now 10. A month ago it was mask at all times, outside the home, now it’s only when you can’t social distance or are going into a bar, restaurant etc.

It works but people in the U.K. just don’t do following rules very well.
Click to expand...

Just read in The Times this morning (can’t post the link as it’s behind a paywall) that Catalonia has just closed it’s nightclubs due to a fivefold increase in cases, Navarra and Cantabria are also now shutting or restricting hours of night clubs due to soaring cases.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top