GB72
Money List Winner
How is that going to work for nightclubs which is the area of hospitality in question. No mixing, no dancing and half empty rooms and dancefloors removes their attraction to a significant number
Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?
- Thread starter drdel
- Start date
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
This is why I asked yesterday is it forecast to be better or worse when the kids leave school. At the moment kids are supposed to stay within a school classroom bubble. The kids have there school holidays and will be mixing with kids from other schools other classes. I don’t know what will happen, time will tell. ?
Still seeing queues at venues along the Playa here. And on a lad’s night out a couple of weeks back it was fine.
With the (imposed) distancing between tables, no more squeezing through. No 10minute wait at the bar. Is it financially viable for venues? The mark up on drinks is crazy…
Why can it be 95% accepted here but not in the U.K.?
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
I Don't get the hesitancy now from people saying to maintain masks. All the vulnerable and most people over 30 will be double jabbed. Anyone who has been jabbed and others who have not been can always be cautious for another few weeks if they are concerned. People can also still wear masks in any situation if they like. Personal responsibility and not before time. I think this decision could have been taken 4 weeks ago and probably would have been if that throbber who likes a bit of extra-marital groping was not in charge! Time for normality and to focus on normal life
No is the simple answer. Plenty of bar owners been interviewed stating this. City centre bars are not covering costs, town centre bars may be breaking even at best. The numbers in with tables spread is simply not enough to make it work in anything other than the shortest of short terms.
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Did you mean the entire population (inc the under 18s) in this 50% as according to Government figures, c.64% of eligible population have been fully vaccinated. If you meant the entire population then that's a totally different kettle of swimming things.
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
I agree. I was actually wondering whether the cases will rise to the levels that are being banded around given that schools close for the summer in two weeks and whilst children will still mix it'll be likely with the same, smaller bunch rather than 30 odd in a confined space. I'm not claiming any background in the modelling but I would have thought we'd see cases plateau into August and then increase in September/October with schools going back with no bubbles and a lot of businesses going back into offices after the summer break so the mixing and commuting will drive the numbers up. At that point though I don't really understand the need for testing as pretty much everyone will be jabbed and it should only be those with symptoms that need to stay at home otherwise we're constantly going to have employees and school children at home for 10 days despite being fine.
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
Correct, most hospitality (but especially clubs) work on extremely fine margins and they survive by selling low and packing people in. Those that are opening and doing so because it's better than staying shut in terms of keeping busy and trying to return to normal however they're not making any particular money and with business rate relief lessening they've got to do what they can to cobble something together.
You're not going to have clubs opening up on the basis of people sitting down, having table service and not dancing and even if they did would people bother going? I just can't see it myself.
Why “No?” It’s working here. Prices have gone up but not massively so. I just don’t ‘get’ the negativity. People are wearing masks when they’re going into places and then taking them off when they sit down. People are accepting the increases in pricing. People are accepting the numbers allowed in - why? Because they have no choice.
You believe it wouldn’t work. I’ve been seeing it work for over a year. We’ve operated under similar restrictions for month and months. 3 months ago it was max 4 at a table inside, then 6 now 10. A month ago it was mask at all times, outside the home, now it’s only when you can’t social distance or are going into a bar, restaurant etc.
It works but people in the U.K. just don’t do following rules very well.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Yes, the entire population. We need to get to 70% of that number to achieve herd immunity.
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
I don't think this has anything to do with the public not following the rules it's simple economics. Bars and clubs work on such tight margins that they simply aren't making money and I can't see sticking a few quid on every bill is going to make a difference, for them they can only operate and start making a profit when they are able to have 100% capacity with no social distancing etc, without that they are treading water at best.
People in the UK have followed the rules pretty well on the whole. We wear masks to go into pubs, we check in using the app, we stick to the numbers per table, we order from the table etc. No different to how you describe. Yes, some have ignored or broken the rules outside of formal situations but that is the same the world over. You have updated us on many occasions regarding the fines dished out in Spain, the people ignoring the rules set out etc. My 'No' relates to the financial viability of a venue operating at 25%, 50%, 60% capacity. The numbers tell you it won't work. Imagine a factory operating at 25% but having the same fixed costs? It doesn't work. Add in the lack of atmoshpere in some of these places and they become less attractive to people. Jack the prices up and not enough people will go. You can increase by a certain extent but not the amount required.
I think they could have kept the masks on restriction, although not when eating and drinking of course which rules out their use in bars and restaurants, but the numbers have to return or hospitality collapses. The sector can not keep on taking out loans.
Edit : (Don't be tricked by social media or actual media that there is mass rebellion happening in the UK regarding restrictions. There really is not. Don't forget how we queue obediently, tut when others don't. We might grmuble but we follow instructions pretty well as a nation
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jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
The aerosol breath must be affected by a barrier. It will still get through but it's velocity has to be reduced by a mask and as such will not travel as far and fall to the ground earlier than If exhaled directly. I understand a mask will not stop it but depending on the quality it will reduce its ability to travel.
People in the UK have followed the rules pretty well on the whole. We wear masks to go into pubs, we check in using the app, we stick to the numbers per table, we order from the table etc. No different to how you describe. Yes, some have ignored or broken the rules outside of formal situations but that is the same the world over. You have updated us on many occasions regarding the fines dished out in Spain, the people ignoring the rules set out etc. My 'No' relates to the financial viability of a venue operating at 25%, 50%, 60% capacity. The numbers tell you it won't work. Imagine a factory operating at 25% but having the same fixed costs? It doesn't work. Add in the lack of atmoshpere in some of these places and they become less attractive to people. Jack the prices up and not enough people will go. You can increase by a certain extent but not the amount required.
I think they could have kept the masks on restriction, although not when eating and drinking of course which rules out their use in bars and restaurants, but the numbers have to return or hospitality collapses. The sector can not keep on taking out loans.
Edit : (Don't be tricked by social media or actual media that there is mass rebellion happening in the UK regarding restrictions. There really is not. Don't forget how we queue obediently, tut when others don't. We might grmuble but we follow instructions pretty well as a nation
And @road2ruin
You both have your beliefs, well reasoned and educated. I have real experiences of it working. In reality, I think we’re both right and both wrong. Spain started phased unlocking of access a long time ago, and although it seems to work financially, that’s too simplistic. I’ve seen long established businesses disappear, and I’ve spoken to a number of business owners I know personally/socially. Some are struggling, really struggling, and some are doing fine. Dare say some are somewhere else on the scale of things. Is 50% sustainable? No it isn’t. There is no easy fix, and what might work for one might not for another - both right and both wrong(?).
As you say, fixed costs don’t change. Managing controllable costs won’t get anywhere near balancing the books. Btw, the factory isn’t operating at 25% - that’s an extreme example used to justify a point, and isn’t credible.
In my view, the phased return that Spain has used is the right way, partly. And I believe that’s what the U.K. should have done a couple of months ago.
It’s also not binary. Remember, it’s also about viral load. Reduce the load might reduce the impact.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
This seems to be the thread on which the sun never sets ?
Thankfully, it appears to have a mask on today. 48* in the sun yesterday afternoon, and unbearable. #aircon at full blast
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Deleted member 21258
Guest
I assume you realise true aerosol(not big spit droplets), stays in the air for hours and floats around on air movement and does not readily fall to the ground . Like fine dust does that you can see in sunrays or smoke inside, hours in the air. The slightly bigger aerosols, slowly evaporate over time and still remain in the air and most of what exhale is aerosol btw. Only the spit kind fall to the ground.
You are kidding yourself if you think the kind of masks people are wearing in the community are really helping with aerosols. Thankfully some people wear better masks.
You also need to think about the law of unintended consequences....
Went to get jab, forced to stand in the same place as the last person wearing a mask. So I breath in their exhaled air in the same spot. Goto hospital forced to take off a N99 mask and put on a surgical mask. No windows open. You cant make it up, even from places that should know better.
The only thing that interests me with a mask, is how much does it filter the virus from the breath and keep in the filter for the length of time the wearer wears it. How many people actually wear them properly and use them properly.
These are all reasons that masks used in the community have never really been proved to help under any kind of RCT and the science evidence is weak. Masks got political and were mandated. If you think RCT in the community has shown different, please put up the link, I think science is great, love to see such a larger scale RCT in the community and would happy to change my opinion on masks, as I am not so entrenched with my opinions not to flex them?
I would go as far to say I wouldn't even wear the kind of N99 I wear to do car spraying or loft insulation or handling the grey boards on garage roofs, they are really a poor seal and probably pretty useless as well in filter that much of the virus for you or me the wearer imho.
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
Its pretty sad reading lots of accounts at the moment, even industries not overly affected by capacity. Lots of companies work on 1-2 year contracts under fixed prices but costs have been increasing or supplies are really hard to get hard of. Some clearly kicking the trend and doing well.
Keep hearing also about a big bout of inflation coming though the system, hope thats wrong as we could do without that on top.