Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

SwingsitlikeHogan

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I think this is what the Govt is aiming for with the whole personal responsibility and putting the rules back to the general population, I wonder whether some shops will decide to do the same. I can't see public transport doing it purely because of how they would manage it although I'm assuming they will ask people to do so given it's a confined space and then rely on people to follow their guidance.
Mayor Khan has already indicated that he will not be requiring TfL to require mask wearing on public transport in London as that would be inconsistent with what was set out yesterday.
 

Jamesbrown

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I suggest that venues have the right - if they so wish and without fear of being accused of discrimination - to require the wearing of a mask as a condition of entry and that they reserve the right to have removed from the premises anyone not wearing a mask. And if they wish they continue with track and trace.

This I wholeheartedly agree with and it should be publicised that private companies can still ask for them to be worn as can companies not require them from the 19th.

There should also be messaging on how the public if they so choose to on how to best protect themselves and options if they are uncomfortable.

There’s a lot of psychological and societal damage that needs repairing and they need to focus on that without the “in it together” diktat.
 

SocketRocket

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I would suggest most infections that led to deaths were transmitted in health care settings were masks are worn.
Who said anything about infections that lead to deaths? My point was that iMO most infections have been transmitted where masks have not been worn, also most infections were not transmitted in care homes.
 

Ethan

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I don’t believe in their efficacy.

I saw no real world evidence of efficacy. Nearly a year in of masks and cases rose and rose.

If you want to wear one - great. Get personal protective ones, shave your face, get professionally face fit, wear a air fed hood. Whatever. Maximise YOUR protection.

All that fitting stuff is great, optimises the value. But it is not necessary in everyday practice. A decent mask still clearly reduces the amount of upper respiratory material you put into the air.

Nor is is primarily a matter of protecting yourself. It mostly protects others, which is why mask refuses and fake lanyard wearers are selfish and socially irresponsible.

In the real world, look at places where simple public health measures and widespread mask use is common. Vietnam, for example. Massively fewer cases. Lots of reasons for that but masks likely contribute. Likeswise other Asian places, having learnt the lesson the hard way previously.

Mask effectiveness is not a matter of belief. Plenty of direct and indirect evidence and no downside apart from agitating people who think they are libertarians.
 
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Swinglowandslow

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I suggest that venues have the right - if they so wish and without fear of being accused of discrimination - to require the wearing of a mask as a condition of entry and that they reserve the right to have removed from the premises anyone not wearing a mask. And if they wish they continue with track and trace.
I agree with what you say, but do you really think that the "patrons" would wear masks and that the management would attempt to eject those that didn't?
Bear In mind masks are not required now when in a restaurant, so cinemas and theatres would demand the same entitlement. ( the "eating" reason doesn't change the similarity of seating proximity etc).
But you don't see a problem, really?
 

Whereditgo

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Btw, are people with symptoms still required to self isolate? Is track and trace still going to be a thing?

I believe that until 16/08/21 things will continue as they are, after that date anyone who has had both doses of the vaccine will no longer be required to self isolate if the come into contact with someone who is positive.
 

Whereditgo

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I am sat here feeling like I have been run over by a bus, and the driver must have known me because I think he put it in reverse to have another go! My second dose of the vaccine was over two months ago, I imagine I would be feeling far worse now otherwise. You really don't want to catch this or pass it on to anyone! And that's not even considering the potential effects of Long Covid.

With regard to mask wearing: I struggle to understand how people can argue that they would refuse to don a mask if it made someone they were close to uncomfortable, I think it was SILH that suggested there was something called manners involved, to that I would add respect! If my actions, or inactions, were making someone else uncomfortable then I would alter what I was doing without question. Especially with something as harmless, to me, as wearing a face mask.
 

Swinglowandslow

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everybody has a right to ask and a right to refuse - but nobody has a right to demand or to physically remove another's mask. If asked to put on a mask I suspect that in most (I cannot in all honesty say all) circumstances I expect that I will do so. If the request is ludicrous or unreasonably made, and if it caused me a problem carrying out what I was doing or about to do - then I might well look to extricate myself from the situation.

Re your first phrase? Are you supporting the law having the right to ask and the lawbreaker having the right to refuse. ?.? ( everything else you say I agree with, btw)

This is what we are talking about . At the moment the law is that everybody has a right to ask someone to ( obey the law) wear a mask (in certain circumstances ), and nobody has a right to refuse .
After 19th , the situation is..."everybody. has a right to ask someone to wear a mask and that person has a right to refuse,.".... isn't it??
 

road2ruin

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With regard to mask wearing: I struggle to understand how people can argue that they would refuse to don a mask if it made someone they were close to uncomfortable, I think it was SILH that suggested there was something called manners involved, to that I would add respect! If my actions, or inactions, were making someone else uncomfortable then I would alter what I was doing without question. Especially with something as harmless, to me, as wearing a face mask.

I think it will depend on what stance the shops etc take, if they decide that mask wearing in store isn't mandatory any more it won't necessarily be an issue of refusing to put it on it will be that they don't carry one to put on any more!
 

Kellfire

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Judging from social media it looks like my favourite bar is going to insist on mask wearing when not at your seat after the 19th and I’ll be very happy if they do.
 

Jamesbrown

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All that fitting stuff is great, optimises the value. But it is not necessary in everyday practice. A decent mask still clearly reduces the amount of upper respiratory material you put into the air.

Nor is is primarily a matter of protecting yourself. It mostly protects others, which is why mask refuses and fake lanyard wearers are selfish and socially irresponsible.

In the real world, look at places where simple public health measures and widespread mask use is common. Vietnam, for example. Massively fewer cases. Lots of reasons for that but masks likely contribute. Likeswise other Asian places, having learnt the lesson the hard way previously.

Mask effectiveness is not a matter of belief. Plenty of direct and indirect evidence and no downside apart from agitating people who think they are libertarians.
.

Doesn’t matter if they’re not great for everyday practice. If you were to be concerned for your health you’d be doing all you can, and as we/if shift to personal responsibility it’s time those who would like mask wearing to continue to look at different avenues for there own personal protection and piece of mind which there is a myriad of options.

We’ve come to a time now we’re we’ll come to the 19th and I would imagine the majority won’t be donning them, this becomes unfortunate to those who would like to still wear them for whatever reason to look and possibly feel like an outcast - which needs addressing and sympathising.

Personally it’s a matter of belief for me when the original messaging was evidence was “weak at best”.
Now I wouldn’t trust any test, RCT, or peer reviewed paper written or done in the last two years no matter if it’s for or against. With scientists all having differing opinions masks have become politicised, monetised and scientists morals and ideals are full of bias.
 

Kellfire

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Doesn’t matter if they’re not great for everyday practice. If you were to be concerned for your health you’d be doing all you can, and as we/if shift to personal responsibility it’s time those who would like mask wearing to continue to look at different avenues for there own personal protection and piece of mind which there is a myriad of options.

We’ve come to a time now we’re we’ll come to the 19th and I would imagine the majority won’t be donning them, this becomes unfortunate to those who would like to still wear them for whatever reason to look and possibly feel like an outcast - which needs addressing and sympathising.

Personally it’s a matter of belief for me when the original messaging was evidence was “weak at best”.
Now I wouldn’t trust any test, RCT, or peer reviewed paper written or done in the last two years no matter if it’s for or against. With scientists all having differing opinions masks have become politicised, monetised and scientists morals and ideals are full of bias.


Again, this post has all the hallmarks of being fully researched on YouTube.
 

Hobbit

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Doesn’t matter if they’re not great for everyday practice. If you were to be concerned for your health you’d be doing all you can, and as we/if shift to personal responsibility it’s time those who would like mask wearing to continue to look at different avenues for there own personal protection and piece of mind which there is a myriad of options.

We’ve come to a time now we’re we’ll come to the 19th and I would imagine the majority won’t be donning them, this becomes unfortunate to those who would like to still wear them for whatever reason to look and possibly feel like an outcast - which needs addressing and sympathising.

Personally it’s a matter of belief for me when the original messaging was evidence was “weak at best”.
Now I wouldn’t trust any test, RCT, or peer reviewed paper written or done in the last two years no matter if it’s for or against. With scientists all having differing opinions masks have become politicised, monetised and scientists morals and ideals are full of bias.

Alternatively, err on the side of caution, just in case you’re wrong.
 

Ethan

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Doesn’t matter if they’re not great for everyday practice. If you were to be concerned for your health you’d be doing all you can, and as we/if shift to personal responsibility it’s time those who would like mask wearing to continue to look at different avenues for there own personal protection and piece of mind which there is a myriad of options.

We’ve come to a time now we’re we’ll come to the 19th and I would imagine the majority won’t be donning them, this becomes unfortunate to those who would like to still wear them for whatever reason to look and possibly feel like an outcast - which needs addressing and sympathising.

Personally it’s a matter of belief for me when the original messaging was evidence was “weak at best”.
Now I wouldn’t trust any test, RCT, or peer reviewed paper written or done in the last two years no matter if it’s for or against. With scientists all having differing opinions masks have become politicised, monetised and scientists morals and ideals are full of bias.

Well, these things operate on a spectrum. Why stop at a properly fitted mask when you could get a hermetically sealed impenetrable space suit with its own laminar flow air system? With most of these interventions, the basic effort gives you half the benefit, and the law of diminishing returns applies above that. Everyday basic masks (but not silk scarves, snoods or woolly garments) are decent enough. Surgeons and anaesthetists spent more time closer to a person more likely to be unwell. They need a bit more.

I am sure that given your cynicism for the intentions, you might be willing to agree that some of the early messaging was influenced by ideology or politics too. The Govt party did not like the idea of masks at all, so downplayed it until forced to change by evidence and logic. You shouldn't interpret their early position as any objective measure of the evidence.

The change in approach has been presented as a matter of personal responsibility. Unless that is incredibly selfish, it should include wearing a mask indoors or in crowded places. I am not sure what other measures (aside from vaccination) provide the same benefit-risk balance. Happy to be enlightened.

If you wouldn't trust any test, RCT or peer reviewed paper, then you are in the realms of opinion shopping and Facebook experts rather than science. That is a bit of a cop-out, though.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Of course we are still going to be opening everything up before the majority of ‘gig-goers’ and those who work in venues have been double-vaccinated. Being younger and with the ‘I am invincible’ thinking of youth, I suspect many if not most will simply decide to take a chance and go to the gig - it’s their prerogative - their choice.

But for those who work in the venues and have not been double vaccinated - well they have to make the choice of work and income and taking a risk to their health, or turning the work down to protect their health and risk losing future work. I am not sure that that is a fair choice. I know what my son will feel forced to do - and that is work carrying the health risk.

Same choice and risk assessment as those (largely under 30) working in restaurants and bars will have to make unless masks are made a condition of entry.
 

road2ruin

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Of course we are still going to be opening everything up before the majority of ‘gig-goers’ and those who work in venues have been double-vaccinated. Being younger and with the ‘I am invincible’ thinking of youth, I suspect many if not most will simply decide to take a chance and go to the gig - it’s their prerogative - their choice.

But for those who work in the venues and have not been double vaccinated - well they have to make the choice of work and income or taking a risk to their health. I am not sure that that is a fair choice.

Vaccines were opened up to all adults in mid-June and so mid August will have given most (who wanted it) the opportunity to be double jabbed just about.
 

Jamesbrown

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I did say myriad of options, certainly not excluding any air fed sealed hood. It’s certainly what I’d wear if I felt threatened.

More skeptical of the the WHO guidance which changed alongside when there was a almost a world wide mask mandate albeit some countries several weeks apart. Not finger pointing at one government. Though can I trust the WHO anyway? No probably not.

I didn’t say Any test, trial or RCT. I said any written these past two years.

I need to see it to believe it,
Perhaps I need to sacrifice myself and contract covid, wear a mask and sit next to someone and test the efficacy real world. Or vice versa. Would you be that someone?
If that test was available I certainly sign up.
 
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