Cook and Trott Out

[Deleted member 18588]

Forgot to add that it's about time Jack Brooks was given a go

At 31 (next month) he is hardly one for the future and has had only one good season (last year). With his style of bowling I would expect to see him take plenty in early season but has been only moderately successful so far this season.

Massive step up from County to Test cricket.

Going back to Dockrill I would suggest he needs a fully fit season at least with plenty of wickets at the right price.

 

[Piece]

Horrific ? Ahhh poor KP - constantly putting himself before the team - requesting that he be allowed to go play IPL instead of playing for England - falling out with every team he has played for and slating everyone in the England set up in his book - slating his own captain and current coach via text to the opposition whilst they were playing against them - scheming to get coaches fired -

Being allowed to play for England after walking away from his country of birth has allowed him to become a multi millionaire.

Whilst ability wise he has been one of the best we have had - attitude wise one of the worst.

KP has always been about what's best for KP not always what's best for his team.

He will be remembered as a great batsmen who was part of some wonderful winning teams but lots of issues surrounding him - time to move on from him

Couldn't agree less. Raking up old ground...

A lot of the issues are not of KP's making. The way the ECB is/was run shows that. Where's the dossier to explain why KP was sacked? Nowhere. Many of KP's claims in his book are backed by other players. The only thing I agree with is the SA text gate.

I note that a current England captain chose to play in the IPL rather than lead his country. I also note that another current England captain slated his dropping from the WC squad recently; rightly, because he is a poor captain. Gooch led rebel tour to SA, effectively endorsing apartheid but was welcomed back.

It's purely that this England setup cannot handle players that do not conform to the cookie-cut mold. If your face don't fit, you're out. Warne and Gilchrist never got on. Sheringham and Cole never spoke. That didn't affect their respective teams?

Why should we move on when it is clear that KP has plenty of years left in him at test level, given a chance. Tendulkar, Kallis, Khan, Sanggakarra, etc. all played on (or are playing) to a high level late into their 30s. If you're in form you should be given a chance, and to exclude based on no real or cricketing reason is poor management and very, very blinkered.

 

[Beezerk]

So what about Broad? Doesn't show up with either bat or ball nowadays but he'll retain his place no doubt.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

So what about Broad? Doesn't show up with either bat or ball nowadays but he'll retain his place no doubt.

Very true.

Bowling has been short of more than just "a yard of pace" and his batting has gone from being very useful at number eight to a walking wicket.

But he is very much part of the establishment so I don't expect to see him dropped.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Think you will have to accept it - his time has been and gone now.

You seem so certain. Wasn't it said by some in the England camp that it would be paramount that he came back to the longer format of the game rather than chase 20/20 lucre and that he'd then need to score runs by the bucketful. Mission accomplished on both fronts so far. If I was NZ or Australia and saw him coming back out, especially in current form and with a point to prove, I'd be a little worried. He's one of the few players we have at the moment still capable of taking the game away from the opposition

As far as spinners go, we are close to the bottom of a barrel in terms of anyone of reliable or match winning ability and have been since Swann finished. I think Ali has the chance to progress but is a long way from being the game changer regularly. I fear chucking an untried Dockrell in against NZ or Australia is too big an ask and he should have been playing this winter and not blooded against one of the best (or most improving in NZ's case)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Lyth and Wood called up to the England squad

The team in full: Alastair Cook, Adam Lyth, Ian Bell, Joe Root, Moeen Ali, Gary Ballance, Jos Buttler, Ben Stokes, Stuart Broad, James Anderson, Chris Jordan, Mark Wood.

Good to see Lyth and Wood included but disappointing to see no front line spinner

 

[Lord Tyrion]

LP - Lords is rarely a spinning wicket so perhaps not too big a surprise. England also see Moeen as their frontline spinner, I think we filled a few pages on that subject a week or so ago. I think it is a shame that Plunkett is not in the squad but pleased to see Lyth and Wood. I hope they play Wood as playing both Stokes and Jordan together did not work in the WI. Wood offers something different.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

LP - Lords is rarely a spinning wicket so perhaps not too big a surprise. England also see Moeen as their frontline spinner, I think we filled a few pages on that subject a week or so ago. I think it is a shame that Plunkett is not in the squad but pleased to see Lyth and Wood. I hope they play Wood as playing both Stokes and Jordan together did not work in the WI. Wood offers something different.

Hopefully will see Wood and not Jordan

Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Buttler
Stokes
Broad
Anderson
Wood

That would be my 11

Can see Jordan playing instead of either Stokes or Wood

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ben Stokes, 9 Tests, 25 wickets at 39

Chris Jordan, 8 Tests, 21 wickets at 35

Each is pretty ordinary but all the time I keep reading people telling me that Stokes "has something special."

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ben Stokes, 9 Tests, 25 wickets at 39

Chris Jordan, 8 Tests, 21 wickets at 35

Each is pretty ordinary but all the time I keep reading people telling me that Stokes "has something special."

Add in Stokes test ton in an ashes plus a few other crucial innings - believe he was just behind KP in the runs total at the last Ashes

Deepens the batting line up which I would prefer when they are close as bowlers

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Add in Stokes test ton in an ashes plus a few other crucial innings - believe he was just behind KP in the runs total at the last Ashes

Deepens the batting line up which I would prefer when they are close as bowlers

One good innings (and it was a good one).

Other than that and he would not average 20 in Tests.

Sorry but whilst he may ultimately be worthy of a place in the Test side at the moment he is just another bits & pieces cricketer who could be useful in the One Dayers and T20.

 

[Tongo]

One good innings (and it was a good one).

Other than that and he would not average 20 in Tests.

Sorry but whilst he may ultimately be worthy of a place in the Test side at the moment he is just another bits & pieces cricketer who could be useful in the One Dayers and T20.

Stokes is in danger of being the latest player who England will pick for one format after he is best suited for another. I can see him not performing in tests and getting dropped from every format. Such is the current way of things.

 

[fundy]

None of Stokes, Jordan or Ali of the current side and Woakes on the fringes have proven they are good enough in with either bat or ball at test level as yet but all are being picked as supposed all rounders whereas they are only proven to being bits and pieces cricketers. Plenty of times in history sides have tried this selection approach yet I cant remember once when it has been successful, if youre not good enough, being not good enough at 2 disciplines doesnt help, youre still not good enough and having 3 of them in one side can only lead one way imho. Need to get back to picking the best 6 batters and best 4 bowlers, that said Im not holding my breath lol

But hey what do I know, Im outside cricket and clearly those in power know better

 

[Tongo]

None of Stokes, Jordan or Ali of the current side and Woakes on the fringes have proven they are good enough in with either bat or ball at test level as yet but all are being picked as supposed all rounders whereas they are only proven to being bits and pieces cricketers. Plenty of times in history sides have tried this selection approach yet I cant remember once when it has been successful, if youre not good enough, being not good enough at 2 disciplines doesnt help, youre still not good enough and having 3 of them in one side can only lead one way imho. Need to get back to picking the best 6 batters and best 4 bowlers, that said Im not holding my breath lol

But hey what do I know, Im outside cricket and clearly those in power know better

Picking the 4 best bowlers is proving a problem as, Anderson aside, England's cupboard is fairly bare.

Liking the outside cricket reference!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

None of Stokes, Jordan or Ali of the current side and Woakes on the fringes have proven they are good enough in with either bat or ball at test level as yet but all are being picked as supposed all rounders whereas they are only proven to being bits and pieces cricketers. Plenty of times in history sides have tried this selection approach yet I cant remember once when it has been successful, if youre not good enough, being not good enough at 2 disciplines doesnt help, youre still not good enough and having 3 of them in one side can only lead one way imho. Need to get back to picking the best 6 batters and best 4 bowlers, that said Im not holding my breath lol

But hey what do I know, Im outside cricket and clearly those in power know better

My two sons will tell you I could have written the same post word for word as you have perfectly summarised my position.

True all-rounders like Sobers and Botham are a rarity but we keep picking the "bitsa" cricketers for our Test team, whereas we should, as you said, pick the best six batsmen, the best four bowlers and the best wicket-keeper.

It is, of course, quite possible that within that selection there will be those batsmen who can sometimes bowl and vice versa.However, that should not be amongst the criteria for selection.

Like you I am not expecting England to change the selection process in the near future. If, on the other hand, one of the other leading teams were to do so then expect us to follow suit as we always seem to be reactive rather than proactive. Bit like Cook's captaincy.

 

[Piece]

My two sons will tell you I could have written the same post word for word as you have perfectly summarised my position.

True all-rounders like Sobers and Botham are a rarity but we keep picking the "bitsa" cricketers for our Test team, whereas we should, as you said, pick the best six batsmen, the best four bowlers and the best wicket-keeper.

It is, of course, quite possible that within that selection there will be those batsmen who can sometimes bowl and vice versa.However, that should not be amongst the criteria for selection.

Like you I am not expecting England to change the selection process in the near future. If, on the other hand, one of the other leading teams were to do so then expect us to follow suit as we always seem to be reactive rather than proactive. Bit like Cook's captaincy.

Nothing more to add to this and Fundy's post.

Disappointed no Hales in the team. Well, he was recommended by KP, so that's marked his card.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nothing more to add to this and Fundy's post.

Disappointed no Hales in the team. Well, he was recommended by KP, so that's marked his card.

Where would you have put Hales ? instead of Lyth ?

As for players being tried as all rounders and being proven not good enough as mentioned earlier

Flintoff himself was raw with both bat and ball when he starter
Steven Smith
Watson


Just a couple in recent years

Stokes has had 8 tests - had a very good first series down under 2nd run scorer and 2nd wicket taker so i really cant see why he has been written off already without him being given a consistent run in the team.

 

[Piece]

Where would you have put Hales ? instead of Lyth ?

As for players being tried as all rounders and being proven not good enough as mentioned earlier

Flintoff himself was raw with both bat and ball when he starter
Steven Smith
Watson


Just a couple in recent years

Stokes has had 8 tests - had a very good first series down under 2nd run scorer and 2nd wicket taker so i really cant see why he has been written off already without him being given a consistent run in the team.

Yes, instead of Lyth. A bit of X-factor at the top of the order. Watching Cook, Robson, Compton, Carberry at the top recently has sent me to sleep. Having said that, I hope Lyth does well but fear the usual death by Cook cricket.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes, instead of Lyth. A bit of X-factor at the top of the order. Watching Cook, Robson, Compton, Carberry at the top recently has sent me to sleep. Having said that, I hope Lyth does well but fear the usual death by Cook cricket.

Lyth has a better average , more 50's and tons than Hales at the longer game

Was it death by cook cricket when he was pilling on the runs ? battering average well over 40 - 26 test tons - when he gets going he piles the runs on.

Cant understand this death by Cook stuff.

 

[Dan2501]

Lyth > Hales atm. Hales isn't even opening for his County, so should definitely not come in ahead of Lyth, who was amazing last year, and should have been given a chance in the West Indies. I do feel for him though, as a few failures, and questions will be asked, like with Robson and Carberry before him. They should just pick someone, whether it's Lyth, Carberry, Robson or Compton and just stick with them for at least 3 series and see how they get on. We're far too quick to bin opening batsmen.

I don't agree with the Death by Cook cricket either in Tests. When Cook is scoring runs, he's not bad to watch, and you don't need to have pinch-hitting in Test cricket anyway. It's a 5 day game, what difference does it make if someone scores a ton off 130 balls, and 180 balls. A little bit of time, but if you're a top Test side, that shouldn't be a problem. The batting isn't our problem in Test cricket atm, we have a very good top order with Cook, Ballance, Bell and Root all settled and playing well. I'd have liked to see KP in there, but I understand it from a cricketing viewpoint that it's hard to get him in. Our big problem in Tests is the bowling. We're far too reliant on Jimmy, Broad goes missing far too often, Stokes isn't good enough with the ball, nor is Jordan, Plunkett hasn't delivered, Woakes lacks penetration, Finn has been ruined, and there's not many guys in County Cricket shouting for a spot. I just wish Tymal Mills could keep himself fit, he's exactly the sort of bowler we need!