Competition Rules/Walking off the Course

[duncan mackie]

Did you actually get to the last post in the thread linked?

To paraphrase it it says "it would appear that my fist post, based on hearsay, didn't have any basis in fact and the R&A have confirmed that you can omit holes, not just scores, as set out in the decision.

However, and as ever, that post is of course as much hearsay as the story referenced (by the same person) but at least they seemed happy with the clarity of the answer.

The inclusion of such cards for handicapping, inc CSS calculation, and any external HIO or 2s pots are subject to other rules and shouldn't be confused.

I'm still slightly surprised at Colin's comments - but he seems to be heading (reluctantly) towards this conclusion. Time will tell. I could pose the following for his consideration:
A catches a tree root with his club playing to the 13th green and hurts his wrist. Although he completes the hole he is concerned about the injury and decides not to tee off on the long par 5 14th and walks the hole. He feels better and decides he can continue from the 15th, and completes his round. Ruling?(obviously these are stableford!)
B gets caught by an urgent call of nature playing the 13th. He advises his fellow competitors that he is going to have to return to the club house and will catch them up as soon as he can, asking A to mark Cs card while he is absent. He rejoins them on the 15th tee. Ruling?

I should add in the context of this thread that in neither of the above did the player discuss their actions with the committee.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Did you actually get to the last post in the thread linked?

To paraphrase it it says "it would appear that my fist post, based on hearsay, didn't have any basis in fact and the R&A have confirmed that you can omit holes, not just scores, as set out in the decision.

However, and as ever, that post is of course as much hearsay as the story referenced (by the same person) but at least they seemed happy with the clarity of the answer.

The inclusion of such cards for handicapping, inc CSS calculation, and any external HIO or 2s pots are subject to other rules and shouldn't be confused.

I'm still slightly surprised at Colin's comments - but he seems to be heading (reluctantly) towards this conclusion. Time will tell. I could pose the following for his consideration:
A catches a tree root with his club playing to the 13th green and hurts his wrist. Although he completes the hole he is concerned about the injury and decides not to tee off on the long par 5 14th and walks the hole. He feels better and decides he can continue from the 15th, and completes his round. Ruling?(obviously these are stableford!)
B gets caught by an urgent call of nature playing the 13th. He advises his fellow competitors that he is going to have to return to the club house and will catch them up as soon as he can, asking A to mark Cs card while he is absent. He rejoins them on the 15th tee. Ruling?

Yes I did read the thread and was still confused, I have come on and asked genuine question and to learn, even in the link people are asking and questioning what scenario was put to the R&A.
I am simply asking for advice not trying to be awkward,

I really struggle to see how you can enter a 18 hole competition with the full knowledge of it being contested over 18 holes and then being allowed to pick and choose how many of the 18 you actually play.

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes I did read the thread and was still confused, I have come on and asked genuine question and to learn, even in the link people are asking and questioning what scenario was put to the R&A.
I am simply asking for advice not trying to be awkward,

I really struggle to see how you can enter a 18 hole competition with the full knowledge of it being contested over 18 holes and then being allowed to pick and choose how many of the 18 you actually play.

I wasn't trying to imply you were being awkward, simply that you posted that the linked thread supported the pemise that a player would be DQ if they didn't start all 18 holes when that thread started with an attestation that this was the case based on an alleged R&A ruling that was eventually overruled by the poster that had raised it after he had communicated with the R&A (as he posted).

I think you are, for some reason possibly connected with 2s pots, confusing the underlying rules issue which permits you to return a score in a stableford competition even if you do not complete a score at each individual hole with something more sinister.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I wasn't trying to imply you were being awkward, simply that you posted that the linked thread supported the pemise that a player would be DQ if they didn't start all 18 holes when that thread started with an attestation that this was the case based on an alleged R&A ruling that was eventually overruled by the poster that had raised it after he had communicated with the R&A (as he posted).

I think you are, for some reason possibly connected with 2s pots, confusing the underlying rules issue which permits you to return a score in a stableford competition even if you do not complete a score at each individual hole with something more sinister.

The 2's pot question is settled, what has confused me with the link is that there are "apparently" 2 answers from the R&A the 2nd one different to the 1st, a couple of posters then query the 2nd ruling asking "newby" what was the question posed? and there is no answer, I posted the link as it also confused me. When first posted on here the answer was straightforward or so I thought, it is my update that has changed that.

 

[Colin L]

I'm still slightly surprised at Colin's comments - but he seems to be heading (reluctantly) towards this conclusion. Time will tell. I could pose the following for his consideration:
A catches a tree root with his club playing to the 13th green and hurts his wrist. Although he completes the hole he is concerned about the injury and decides not to tee off on the long par 5 14th and walks the hole. He feels better and decides he can continue from the 15th, and completes his round. Ruling?(obviously these are stableford!)
B gets caught by an urgent call of nature playing the 13th. He advises his fellow competitors that he is going to have to return to the club house and will catch them up as soon as he can, asking A to mark Cs card while he is absent. He rejoins them on the 15th tee. Ruling?

I've no argument against players being permitted by D32-1/2 to omit holes and have in the past, possibly in this august forum, made mention of a member of my club who cannot make the carry over a gully from tee to fairway on one hole and simply omits it in stableford. For him, that is great as there is obviously no point in his entering a stroke competition. It has to be agreed then that the omitted holes could be the remaining one or ones in a round e.g. if the hole over the gully were the 18th for example.

I continue to have difficulty, however, not with what the rules tell us as above, but with the anomalous situation where one group of players shelter from the rain, continue and are disqualified under 6-8 (see Rule 32-2a) whereas another group shelter from the rain by abandoning their round and heading off to the clubhouse for a beer and are not.

Paul has outclassed my hypothetical with the thought of a player scoring an ace at the 2nd and walking off to claim the money, the whisky and the HDID watch.

In short, I want to DQ the group which abandons its round but am struggling to justify it.

 

[duncan mackie]

I've no argument against players being permitted by D32-1/2 to omit holes and have in the past, possibly in this august forum, made mention of a member of my club who cannot make the carry over a gully from tee to fairway on one hole and simply omits it in stableford. For him, that is great as there is obviously no point in his entering a stroke competition. It has to be agreed then that the omitted holes could be the remaining one or ones in a round e.g. if the hole over the gully were the 18th for example.

I continue to have difficulty, however, not with what the rules tell us as above, but with the anomalous situation where one group of players shelter from the rain, continue and are disqualified under 6-8 (see Rule 32-2a) whereas another group shelter from the rain by abandoning their round and heading off to the clubhouse for a beer and are not.

Paul has outclassed my hypothetical with the thought of a player scoring an ace at the 2nd and walking off to claim the money, the whisky and the HDID watch.

In short, I want to DQ the group which abandons its round but am struggling to justify it.

Thank you for the last paragraph. ...and yes I did remember but wasn't going to raise it 😀

As to your specific example - seems quite logical to me that if a game wishes to shelter from the weather they have to give up on the balance of their competitive round, whilst those wishing to continue have to do so without delay. On the other hand it makes no sense that they would have to concede what they have already achieved in a cumulative competition.

 

[rulefan]

I can confirm that the R&A's position is that in stableford a player may omit a hole (or holes). Omit meaning to not play (ie start or complete) or not return a score (32-1/2 supports this).

The (R&A) source of the statement in the thread that said

[FONT=&quot]They (ie the R&A) said we had to play the stipulated round as it was stroke play and although in stableford you do not have to complete the hole you must at least tee off and try and post a score on EVERY hole.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

cannot be found and its validity is denied. They are doubtful that such a statement was made by someone in an official capacity.

My personal opinion is that it was made by someone involved in a handicapping role (possible a national or county union).
The words "...and try and post a score on EVERY hole" may give a hint.

 

[Old Skier]

So a player who needs a .1 for his handicap increase goes on the first tee and it's starts raining can legitimately walk in and get his handicap increased according to the answers above.

 

[rulefan]

So a player who needs a .1 for his handicap increase goes on the first tee and it's starts raining can legitimately walk in and get his handicap increased according to the answers above.

No. If the committee believe he doing it in order to build a handicap they have a number of sanctions available, including refusing to accept the card.

 

[Crazyface]

This rule, it appears, means you are not able to shelter from a deluge of rain that suddenly happens over a golf course during a competition round is surely bonkers!!!!!! So the R+A seem to think that it is right and proper that golfers are to be expected to carry on as if nothing is happening and get soaked to the skin????
I don't think so. I'm sure that even they would permit golfers to stop, shelter and get into their waterproofs and allow them a little time to compose themselves (let the rain ease or stop) before continuing their round.
Also if a group is known to actually stop play, and just NR remaining holes they are disqualified no matter what surely, no discussion.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This rules that, it appears, means you are not able to shelter from a deluge of rain that suddenly happens over a golf course during a competition round is surely bonkers!!!!!! So the R+A seem to think that it is right and proper that golfers are to be expected to carry on as if nothing is happening and get soaked to the skin????
I don't think so. I'm sure that even they would permit golfers to stop, shelter and get into their waterproofs and allow them a little time to compose themselves (let the rain ease or stop) before continuing their round.
Also if a group is known to actually stop play, and just NR remaining holes they are disqualified no matter what surely, no discussion.

Waterproofs help keep people dry

 

[Crazyface]

Yes they do....and ????

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes they do....and ????

So rain isn't a reason for people to ignore rules and stop whilst they have a little rest and shelter.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So rain isn't a reason for people to ignore rules and stop whilst they have a little rest and shelter.

Totally agree Phil and this is what caused my OP, those that carried on played through finished 18 holes, some walked off after 14 holes, put 4 NR's on the card and finished higher than those that played 18, Happy with the answers and reasons the guys with knowledge have supplied, just surprised you can pick and choose how many and which holes you play during a Stableford Comp.

 

[bladeplayer]

Totally agree Phil and this is what caused my OP, those that carried on played through finished 18 holes, some walked off after 14 holes, put 4 NR's on the card and finished higher than those that played 18, Happy with the answers and reasons the guys with knowledge have supplied, just surprised you can pick and choose how many and which holes you play during a Stableford Comp.

Very interesting question & answers , always good to learn new stuff

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Very interesting question & answers , always good to learn new stuff

Favourite and best thread on the Forum for me.

 

[Fyldewhite]

So rain isn't a reason for people to ignore rules and stop whilst they have a little rest and shelter.

Nah, wouldn't ever condone that but in my experience you never get that sort of torrential rain without a distant rumble of thunder