Club Championships

[cliveb]

To be honest our actual gross club champs is officially called the Heath Scratch something or other, but everyone knows it's the club champs. And the net one is the Hymardun cup. Presumably named after people who played here 100 odd years ago.

The Hymardun cup is named after Alan Hymns and his regular playing partner (whose name I can't recall). Alan was still alive a few years ago - I played with him a couple of times.

Our club champs start today. 36 holes over two Saturdays. Lowest gross for the championship. I'm playing, without a cat in hell's chance, but there is a net prize as well.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Regarding the original question, that'll obviously be, whatever entry suits the individual club and members, can there really be any other answer?

If there's only a few low players it doesn't make much sense to have a club champs based on scratch, jeez it might just be a fourball going out one day
On the other side, lots of good low players should definitely get to play to be champ without the dilution (pollution) of many dozens of mid/high cappers taking part and impacting the pace and course

Horses for courses

Our ladies section has a 36-hole scratch championship.
The lowest player has a handicap 12 shots lower than the 2nd lowest. Then comes a host of players with not much between them.
No one feels a need to change it, as far as I know.
If the best player becomes the champion, why change it?
Our ladies are competitive and there are bragging rights for second place.
Changing the comp from scratch to handicap would be the wrong message to a player that everyone is enormously happy with as an asset to the club.

 

[doublebogey7]

Regarding the original question, that'll obviously be, whatever entry suits the individual club and members, can there really be any other answer?

If there's only a few low players it doesn't make much sense to have a club champs based on scratch, jeez it might just be a fourball going out one day
On the other side, lots of good low players should definitely get to play to be champ without the dilution (pollution) of many dozens of mid/high cappers taking part and impacting the pace and course

Horses for courses

I don't agree, if only a few good players and they or the club feel they don't need to have a club champion, then simply don't hold a club championship. Please though don't award the title to a random who happens to play better than normal in one particular day of the year.

 

[Billysboots]

I think Club Chanpionship SHOULD be 36 holes in one day - golf is a test of technical, physical and emotional and mental skill/ability

36 holes in a day tests the physical and mental faculties of players

Agree 100%.

Sadly, our committee don’t think that fair on less able bodied golfers, so it’s never going to happen.

 

[Neilds]

Sounds like my club may be an outlier with regards to field size. Played over 2 days (next weekend) with a full field of 96 players. As mentioned, there is a scratch and handicap competition with divisions for handicap. Booked slots on Saturday and score order on Sunday and was fully booked up on opening of the sheet

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Pretty sure that three years ago the club made an exception to our ‘Male Full/7-Day Member’ entry criteria so that Lottie Woad could play. Unfortunately she was not able to play in it as she headed off to university….but after all why shouldn't the club champion be female. Good chance she would have won it which I think would have been really nice.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sounds like my club may be an outlier with regards to field size. Played over 2 days (next weekend) with a full field of 96 players. As mentioned, there is a scratch and handicap competition with divisions for handicap. Booked slots on Saturday and score order on Sunday and was fully booked up on opening of the sheet

We will be rammed full. We’ve a very competitive membership…

Scratch winner wins the Club Champion trophy and is Club Champion…handicap (nett) winner wins the Fletcher Bowl.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Agree 100%.

Sadly, our committee don’t think that fair on less able bodied golfers, so it’s never going to happen.

Our change to 2 consecutive Saturdays came in last year.
As an old codger, I think it gives me more of a chance now.
But it killed off a decades-old tradition and much of the excitement and camaraderie is missing.

Number of entries had dwindled to fewer than 20.
A lot more are effectively "in it" now, but they have been "roped in" rather than fully committed participants.

I understand the inclusivity issue, but I would support a change back to 36 on one day, lessening my chances, even if only 12 entered. And buggies should be allowed.

 

[Backache]

Ours is played over two weekends.
The first is a single day 36 hole stroke play where entry is determined by handicap.
The top 16 get entry to the knockouts held over a weekend.

 

[Billysboots]

Our change to 2 consecutive Saturdays came in last year.
As an old codger, I think it gives me more of a chance now.
But it killed off a decades-old tradition and much of the excitement and camaraderie is missing.

Number of entries had dwindled to fewer than 20.
A lot more are effectively "in it" now, but they have been "roped in" rather than fully committed participants.

I understand the inclusivity issue, but I would support a change back to 36 on one day, lessening my chances, even if only 12 entered. And buggies should be allowed.

I guess we’re never going to please everyone.

My issue, and it is shared by others, is that being out of the house all weekend, which in effect is what happens with two long rounds, goes down like a bucket of sick at home. So I like one day, with a prize ceremony after and maybe a BBQ or similar. Make a proper day of it.

But some won’t, and in several cases can’t, manage 36 in a day. Buggies are allowed, but for documented medical reasons only - not just because someone gets knackered playing two rounds in a day.

It’s a shame because, at ours, Club Championship has been reduced to no more than two medals in a weekend with a gross prize. No members watching the final groups play the last, no back slapping and hand shaking as the winner comes off the final green. It’s becoming very watered down and irrelevant.

 

[Voyager EMH]

It’s a shame because, at ours, Club Championship has been reduced to no more than two medals in a weekend with a gross prize. No members watching the final groups play the last, no back slapping and hand shaking as the winner comes off the final green. It’s becoming very watered down and irrelevant.

That is exactly what I feel ours is now. And over two days a week apart!
A quite stupid way to do a "Championship".

 

[Deleted member 18645]

Then you also come into the whole "should juniors play" debate. My view is yes but many clubs have the event designated as "Men's Champion" with juniors having their own version.
My old club had this until one year the Captain of the club changed the rules because his 16-year old son thought he had a chance of winning. He didn't.
A year later, the rule about "members with two clubs can only play if their home club is this one" got changed because the same son was now a member of another club as well. He didn't win that one either.

In short, clubs do whatever they want which is fine as this thread shows. The problem is when one or two people with their own personalised agendas get involved and screw it up for everyone else.

My ideal club championships? Two consecutive days, scratch and net prizes, Men, Women and Juniors. The latter can enter the adults but have to withdraw from the Junior one to be eligible. Handicap order in Round 1, descending order of gross score on Round 2. Last three juniors, last three ladies and then last 3 x 3 mens groups going out at the end so all those groups get to experience everyone watching them finish on the 18th.

 

[AliMc]

That is exactly what I feel ours is now. And over two days a week apart!
A quite stupid way to do a "Championship".

I mentioned previously in the thread ours is qualifying stroke play then match play, all the finals Club Champ, B, C, Seniors, Ladies and other season long match play events are played on one day in September, it's a great way to do it, can't believe that a Club Championship is just decided over 2 rounds stroke play

 

[pokerjoke]

We have a Nett and Gross over 2 days
Top 32 I believe can play on the Sunday.
Controversial decision a 3 years back when the club went all gender neutral to allow the ladies to play, and a lady has won the Nett prize twice since.
It doesn’t bother me ,although they wouldn’t allow men in there’s.
We also have a couple low juniors that enter although they have their championships as well.
More the merrier I say.
I also think it’s a very valid comp at a club and imo a prestigious comp , some bragging rights and also nice to see the names on the boards over the years.

 

[Deleted member 18645]

I mentioned previously in the thread ours is qualifying stroke play then match play, all the finals Club Champ, B, C, Seniors, Ladies and other season long match play events are played on one day in September, it's a great way to do it, can't believe that a Club Championship is just decided over 2 rounds stroke play

Who wins the Open each year? Best score over the four rounds on consecutive days or the person who wins a season-long series run by the R&A?

 

[AliMc]

Who wins the Open each year? Best score over the four rounds on consecutive days or the person who wins a season-long series run by the R&A?

Hardly a comparison really, still I suppose stroke play makes a change from Stableford

 

[Crow]

My previous club was 36 holes in one day, maximum handicap 12, players went out in handicap order, highest first. In the second round went out in Rd 1 score order, highest first.
The day had a special feel but numbers dwindled and so a net was introduced to run alongside, the buzz was still there and it worked well.

Current club it's 36 holes over a weekend for scratch and under debate if 18 or 36 holes for net. The lower handicappers go out first as they don't want to be held up by slower groups.
Just doesn't have the same sense of excitement and I'm not even sure if I'll bother entering this year.

 

[Imurg]

36 in a day or over 2 days and I still wouldn't get overly excited about it, never have.
It's just another game of golf...just the prizes are a bit bigger.
Still got next to no chance of winning Scratch or Nett prizes......some Plus handicapper will come in with 2 rounds of 72 and a 17 handicapper will, undoubtedly, come in with nett 67 both days....neither of which I can get close to over 2 rounds back to back.
Got a shot at 2s money but there will likely be a lot....
Entered last year as, if I hadn't, I wouldn't have been able to play on either day....probably do the same this year just so I can play...

 

[Deleted member 18645]

Clubs play handicap competitions 51 weeks a year, multiple days each week. Why is there such an issue with one event being scratch to determine the best player?
A friend of mine took great delight in finishing in the Top 10 one year and then excelled himself a 5th place finish the following year. He knew he wasn't going to win but was trying to achieve his best ever finishing position.

 

[IanM]

Why is there such an issue with one event being scratch to determine the best player?

There isn't!