Clean air zones

[Deleted member 21784]

I find it amazing that all the pollution knows to stop at the ULEZ boundary

Let's not be childish about it now

Ulez was brought in under bojo when he was mayor, it was a success and is being extended

Reason it's not nationwide is less dense amount of cars mean less build up of pollution so the levels are as bad, it could be brought in nation wide but the mayor of London has no power to do so it would need policy from above to do everyone

It's a good scheme in the sense of reducing emissions but some bad points

1 it was extended with 9 months notice. Very short
2 because people still need to get to work the "punishment" is too small. £12.50 so people won't change so like bunkermagnet said a lot will just naturally progress anyways weighing up on how much it actually costs them
3 the scrapping scheme has been a farce
4 classic cars should be included
5 proper fines like Glasgow is it? £50 puts people off

But don't take away that it is actually a good idea.


Yes the gov pushed people to diesel but science changes and emission standards have been highlighted

A 2002 petrol car produces the same nox levels as a 2016 diesel, those pre 2016 diesels level of nox is so high (yes their co2 is low but it's dumping it elsewhere when it emptied the DPF)

It's not a money grab as within 10 years the money won't be coming in, as people will change cars etc

The money is put back into making the network greener which is never a bad thing


What I will add which is one to watch is I bet the standards change down the line ... IE euro 6 diesel's won't be free etc

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Difficult with a suitcase, golf clubs and handbaggage. Particularly having to use the underground to get from Waterloo to Victoria.

However it is an option, you could do it. Could get a cab. Could pay the ulez (if your car is not free anyways)

I just paid £85 to park at Gatwick for a week meet and greet etc , it will just go on the top of people's holidays costs.. and it's shown time and time again people will pay anything to go away

 

[woofers]

Is it, plenty of trains go to Heathrow, you train to London and connect.
How is that "non existent"

Oh dear, please read my post carefully, I said “anywhere other than London to Heathrow is virtually non-existent”. And just exactly how many trains go to Heathrow? The Heathrow Express and the Underground.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Oh dear, please read my post carefully, I said “anywhere other than London to Heathrow is virtually non-existent”. And just exactly how many trains go to Heathrow? The Heathrow Express and the Underground.

Elizabeth line
The underground
Heathrow express

Sorry how many direct lines do you want for one airport?

That's pretty well connected too London and the Elizabeth line you can get from reading / Slough then change for a service to Heathrow

 

[cliveb]

Is it just people whose cars are not exempt from the charge who are against this?

No.

My car is exempt as it happens. But I object to the spin that's being put on it, claiming it's to improve air quality when it's actually about making money.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

So basically my seat Leon FR 2.0 ltr diesel costs £20 per year to tax because it is ultra low with CO emissions. It was registered in september 2014. It would now cost me £12.50 a day to drive in London. However if I bought it on January 1st 2015. It would cost me nothing. How’s that right. It’s a money making scam.
Basically dirty cars kill kids but for £12.50 a day it don’t. Really.
two weeks ago I was stood at the RAF memorial at Runnymede. It was a constant watch seeing planes taking off from Heathrow. Don’t that affect the air quality. Personally I think it’s a rammel idea.
it’s like the M1 near Sheffield Meadowhall. It’s 60 mph for everyone because of air quality. So why are electric cars having to stick to 60 mph.

Not quite.
For a diesel it has to be Euro 6 to qualify for no charge. Sadly the use of dates is just a general guestimate often used as fact.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Is it just people whose cars are not exempt from the charge who are against this?

Nope. All the vehicles in my house are complian, but I don’t agree with the expansion.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Is it just people whose cars are not exempt from the charge who are against this?

We have a real problem in this country of "let's do nothing and hope things will improve"

This is a real policy that will change life for millions

As a father with 3 young girls , eldest is already asthmatic (so are half her year at school) I welcome a change in air quality

Air quality has also been linked to (along with over and misuse) to the growing issue with antibiotics

Antibiotic resistance may be linked to air pollution, study finds

A new global study found that rising air pollution levels correlated with increased antibiotic resistance – one of the biggest threats to human health.

www.euronews.com

I do however agree it could have been brought a lot more smoothly and slowly

 

[Bunkermagnet]

ULEZ is a red herring, and is avoiding the real problem. Congestion is the problem.
For example, Park Lane in Mayfair. It’s on the edge of Hyde Park, and was. 2 lanes for traffic and one bus lane going North.
Now it’s 1 huge cycle Lane with physical barriers, 1 bus Lane and 1 Lane for traffic. As a result, the traffic is always tailed back there, slow and backing onto Hyde Park Corner and the delays that causes with the blocking of the roundabout.
Wandsworth Bridge Road is now surrounded by LTN’s, (where Khan lives, unsurprisingly) and often it has take an hour to go from New Kings Road to actually crossing Wandsworth Bridge. This road is less than a mile long. This is because all the traffic is funnelled along it as all the side roads are covered by the LTN and their cameras. You could argue that’s better for them, but what about the people who live on Wandsworth Bridge Road who now have more standing and slow moving traffic.
The Congestion charge area made a huge difference when it was brought in, then when they gave more residents from nearby a discount the traffic levels went up. Now there are more eve’ because it free for them and reduced parking charges the congestion levels are back up to where they were before CC came into force.

Perhaps a better way would be to ban cars taking kids to school, or single persons in a car during certain hours of the day unless for work/trade.

 

[stefanovic]

Great smog of London in 1952 killed at least 4000 people.
Burning cheap coal in the form of slack largely to blame.

The big picture is our cities are too overcrowded and public transport is overcrowded.
Plenty of bikes in London and cyclists also need to breathe clean air.
Should be a global human right to always have access to clean air.
If air quality is dangerous to health it might be a good idea to close the whole area to traffic.

I've just seen a bus left with its engine running. Another big problem as it's in a rural area.
Then there's wood burning stoves and bonfires.
Wish I could get on my bike again and feel safe.

 

[Tashyboy]

In principal ULEZ Is a brilliant idea. However once more a good idea has gone tits. There’s talk of improving public transport and let’s not get bogged down with London. It’s rammel. Let me give you an example. Ollerton to Newark no bus. so to get round it you request one online to pick you up. It’s turns up. Anything from a 18tp 52 seater to take one person to a town 10-12 miles away. Same for a return journey and that’s called progress.
Let’s talk about trams. But before we do. Visit Crich Tramway museum in Derbyshire. There’s a map of all towns and Cities that had Electrified tram Systems that were ripped out for the sake of cars. There was thousands of miles of clean public transport that were ripped out for cars that are now seen as the devil.
Let’s talk about the rammel railway system. But before we do. Remember Beechings report that was instrumental in ripping our thousands of miles of Railways. Mansfield had two railway stations. Through improving the railway system Both stations were abandoned. Mansfield at one time was the largest town in the country without a railway station. That’s called progress. Now E are spending Billions on HS2. Again that’s called progress and Growth.
All of these decisions have affected the raising levels of CO2 and yet now it is car drivers that are paying the brunt of this.
Car drivers are the ones that were encouraged to get on their bikes and travel further afield for work. The current transport system in this country does not provide an alternative to the vast Majority other than drive.
ULEZ is yet another failed attempt to improve air quality which has risen due to poor decisions made by the very people that have implemented ULEZ.
Once more the people that have created the problems by ripping out railway lines, tram lines, public transport etc etc.Are the same people telling us we have solved the problem we have created.
PS, Its taken me an age to type this without being political

 

[WGCRider]

claiming it's to improve air quality when it's actually about making money.

But it's not. If they wanted to make money they would of just expanded the congestion charge zone. They didn't cause they don't. They don't want you to to have to pay £12.50. They don't want you getting in your car in the first place.

It may be unpopular but it is 100% the right thing to do. I'd equate it to the smoking ban. The world was going to end cause they banned smoking in pubs - not I can't imagine anything worse on a night out than being stuck in a smoky pub.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

But it's not. If they wanted to make money they would of just expanded the congestion charge zone. They didn't cause they don't. They don't want you to to have to pay £12.50. They don't want you getting in your car in the first place.

It may be unpopular but it is 100% the right thing to do. I'd equate it to the smoking ban. The world was going to end cause they banned smoking in pubs - not I can't imagine anything worse on a night out than being stuck in a smoky pub.

That's exactly what was on the table during covid. It came out the other day shapps wanted the congestion charge extended to the north and south circulars

However ulez is all well and good but next to my club there are fires every year.. in the old land fill. Waste of fire fighters time (3 engines and 2 dozen fire fighters today)

The environment agency will do nothing about it because they A don't want to disturb what's done their (toxic) and b will find bodies ....

That will do a lot more than ulez fixing those fires

 

[simsini]

But it's not. If they wanted to make money they would of just expanded the congestion charge zone. They didn't cause they don't. They don't want you to to have to pay £12.50. They don't want you getting in your car in the first place.

It may be unpopular but it is 100% the right thing to do. I'd equate it to the smoking ban. The world was going to end cause they banned smoking in pubs - not I can't imagine anything worse on a night out than being stuck in a smoky pub.

ULEZ is an abomination and a disgrace, but also an excuse for Khan to introduce a camera network to turn London into a surveillance state. The cameras are not standard ANPR cameras, they are capable of facial recognition. Why? It will soon be changed into pay per mile as TFL documents already show. He's not spending hundreds of millions for nothing.

 

[simsini]

ULEZ is a red herring, and is avoiding the real problem. Congestion is the problem.
For example, Park Lane in Mayfair. It’s on the edge of Hyde Park, and was. 2 lanes for traffic and one bus lane going North.
Now it’s 1 huge cycle Lane with physical barriers, 1 bus Lane and 1 Lane for traffic. As a result, the traffic is always tailed back there, slow and backing onto Hyde Park Corner and the delays that causes with the blocking of the roundabout.
Wandsworth Bridge Road is now surrounded by LTN’s, (where Khan lives, unsurprisingly) and often it has take an hour to go from New Kings Road to actually crossing Wandsworth Bridge. This road is less than a mile long. This is because all the traffic is funnelled along it as all the side roads are covered by the LTN and their cameras. You could argue that’s better for them, but what about the people who live on Wandsworth Bridge Road who now have more standing and slow moving traffic.
The Congestion charge area made a huge difference when it was brought in, then when they gave more residents from nearby a discount the traffic levels went up. Now there are more eve’ because it free for them and reduced parking charges the congestion levels are back up to where they were before CC came into force.

Perhaps a better way would be to ban cars taking kids to school, or single persons in a car during certain hours of the day unless for work/trade.

Completely agree about LTNs, they are a joke.

How can you ban cars from taking kids to school when governments of all colours have deliberately stopped children being automatically admitted to their local school? For secondary schools in Kent, you could be allocated one up to 20 miles away with no public transport available. I'm sure the same applies elsewhere.

 

[simsini]

We have a real problem in this country of "let's do nothing and hope things will improve"

This is a real policy that will change life for millions

As a father with 3 young girls , eldest is already asthmatic (so are half her year at school) I welcome a change in air quality

Air quality has also been linked to (along with over and misuse) to the growing issue with antibiotics

Antibiotic resistance may be linked to air pollution, study finds

A new global study found that rising air pollution levels correlated with increased antibiotic resistance – one of the biggest threats to human health.

www.euronews.com

I do however agree it could have been brought a lot more smoothly and slowly

ULEZ has nothing to do with air quality. It's all about the money and expanding the camera network to cover Greater London before charging all cars through pay per mile.

Access Restricted

 

[Deleted member 21784]

ULEZ has nothing to do with air quality. It's all about the money and expanding the camera network to cover Greater London before charging all cars through pay per mile.

Access Restricted

Pay by mile is coming regardless

HMRC is going to have a huge hole soon with the growth of ev etc

Pay by mile will be the way forward. It won't use the ulez cameras

However what ulez cameras will be used for is zero emissions cars only in all London by 2050 is the aim..

 

[simsini]

Pay by mile is coming regardless

HMRC is going to have a huge hole soon with the growth of ev etc

Pay by mile will be the way forward. It won't use the ulez cameras

However what ulez cameras will be used for is zero emissions cars only in all London by 2050 is the aim..

Pay per mile is only coming if it is accepted, see Poll Tax. It's complete nonsense to say that somewhere such as Biggin Hill or Cudham needs to be in any ULEZ zone. ULEZ has been introduced through corruption (paying off scientists) and Khan riding roughshod over democracy. It was never in his manifesto to extend to the whole of London, he even denied it in 2021. He started purchasing the cameras before any consultation too, which he conveniently ignored because the vast majority were against it. Then there's the issue of insufficient signage and none of the signs saying that a charge is payable at all, as well as TFL failing to report stolen cameras to the ICO, a huge breach of personal data. Khan is up to his neck in it.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Pay per mile is only coming if it is accepted, see Poll Tax. It's complete nonsense to say that somewhere such as Biggin Hill or Cudham needs to be in any ULEZ zone. ULEZ has been introduced through corruption (paying off scientists) and Khan riding roughshod over democracy. It was never in his manifesto to extend to the whole of London, he even denied it in 2021. He started purchasing the cameras before any consultation too, which he conveniently ignored because the vast majority were against it. Then there's the issue of insufficient signage and none of the signs saying that a charge is payable at all, as well as TFL failing to report stolen cameras to the ICO, a huge breach of personal data. Khan is up to his neck in it.

Lol if you really think this country will stand up now like it did for the poll tax I think you need to have a look out the window

The world has changed

You can bearly get people to stand up for themselves let alone each other

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Folks, we are teetering on the edge of political chat here. The thread is a good one, it would be a shame to close it but we will if necessary.