Clean air zones

[Hobbit]

Several posters have said it’s a money making scheme. How can it be a money making scheme when 90.5% of vehicles are exempt?

What is wrong with pay per mile? Granny drives 5 miles to the shops and back, and pays £12.50. Joe Bloggs, the plumber, drives 50 miles and only pays the same.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Several posters have said it’s a money making scheme. How can it be a money making scheme when 90.5% of vehicles are exempt?

What is wrong with pay per mile? Granny drives 5 miles to the shops and back, and pays £12.50. Joe Bloggs, the plumber, drives 50 miles and only pays the same.

One thing that was suggested was pay by mile based on what car you drive and when you drive it

For example 50 miles in an old diesel at peak time would pay more than 50 miles in a newer petrol off peak times

I strongly believe pay by mile will replace fuel duty sooner rather than later

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

One thing that was suggested was pay by mile based on what car you drive and when you drive it

For example 50 miles in an old diesel at peak time would pay more than 50 miles in a newer petrol off peak times

I strongly believe pay by mile will replace fuel duty sooner rather than later

I believe it to be an option being explored by the ‘other lot’…according to a ‘shock, horror’ piece in a newspaper friendly to the ‘current lot’.

In any case. If I lived within the ULEZ I would expect the day rate that I pay tradesmen to go up by £12.50 (or whatever it is in my city). And around where I am that’s on top of the current £200-£250 I already pay…I doubt the smaller, independent tradesmen with a non-compliant vehicle will feel, much if any, pain. The pain will be felt by their customers, customers who already feel the pain of their day rate.

I might of course be wrong, but history suggests that, in the main, costs borne by suppliers tend to be passed on to the customer - certainly the builder of our extension had to pass on the recent escalated costs of every brick, every bag of cement, every piece of steel.

 

[stefanovic]

The man who anticipated our modern society when living on the Isle of Jura.
George Orwell of course.
The worst is still to come with AI.
Actually, surveillance started way back in the reign of Queen Elizabeth I.

 

[cliveb]

I strongly believe pay by mile will replace fuel duty sooner rather than later

Since when was fuel duty not a pay by mile tax? And one which taxed the least efficient and most polluting cars the most?

I strongly believe that pay by mile will AUGMENT fuel duty. Never underestimate the government's ability to find extra ways to gouge its citizens.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Since when was fuel duty not a pay by mile tax? And one which taxed the least efficient and most polluting cars the most?

I strongly believe that pay by mile will AUGMENT fuel duty. Never underestimate the government's ability to find extra ways to gouge its citizens.

I think pay by mile will come in on top of fuel duty to encourage people to switch as you will be taxed twice if you dont

 

[Jamesbrown]

Several posters have said it’s a money making scheme. How can it be a money making scheme when 90.5% of vehicles are exempt?

Because that is the beginning. Once accepted or forgotten about they can then add other vehicles that they deem eligible to pay. See road tax that is apparently “emissions based” until more people decided they’d go electric.
If they said all fuel cars must pay then there would be a lot more opposition and less people like you with the same question and not overly concerned.

A stealthy way of introducing a new tax for simpletons to accept.

How long has that temporary income tax and 20% VAT got left?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Because that is the beginning. Once accepted or forgotten about they can then add other vehicles that they deem eligible to pay. See road tax that is apparently “emissions based” until more people decided they’d go electric.
If they said all fuel cars must pay then there would be a lot more opposition and less people like you with the same question and not overly concerned.

A stealthy way of introducing a new tax for simpletons to accept.

How long has that temporary income tax and 20% VAT got left?

They will change the standards over time but then the original plan was by 2050 no emission cars would be allowed into greater London

But by then ice cars would be 20 years old minimum so would be phasing out

 

[clubchamp98]

Because that is the beginning. Once accepted or forgotten about they can then add other vehicles that they deem eligible to pay. See road tax that is apparently “emissions based” until more people decided they’d go electric.
If they said all fuel cars must pay then there would be a lot more opposition and less people like you with the same question and not overly concerned.

A stealthy way of introducing a new tax for simpletons to accept.

How long has that temporary income tax and 20% VAT got left?

Yes agree.
always thought Road Tax as it used to be should be based on weight of the vehicle.

Damaging the Air seems to beat Damage to the road surfaces.
EVs are much heavier than equivalent cars but pay nothing.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Yes agree.
always thought Road Tax as it used to be should be based on weight of the vehicle.

Damaging the Air seems to beat Damage to the road surfaces.
EVs are much heavier than equivalent cars but pay nothing.

Road tax doesn't and hasn't existed for decades tho

Roads are paid from local and general taxes which EV drivers pay so it's a moot point

 

[Hobbit]

Because that is the beginning. Once accepted or forgotten about they can then add other vehicles that they deem eligible to pay. See road tax that is apparently “emissions based” until more people decided they’d go electric.
If they said all fuel cars must pay then there would be a lot more opposition and less people like you with the same question and not overly concerned.

A stealthy way of introducing a new tax for simpletons to accept.

How long has that temporary income tax and 20% VAT got left?

They‘re behind you!

 

[clubchamp98]

Road tax doesn't and hasn't existed for decades tho

Roads are paid from local and general taxes which EV drivers pay so it's a moot point

It was just replaced with VED how much is that on an EV.
So “ Road Tax just under another name”
Mine is £165 pa. Plus my Taxes like EV drivers.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

It was just replaced with VED how much is that on an EV.
So “ Road Tax just under another name”
Mine is £165 pa. Plus my Taxes like EV drivers.

EVs are currently free but from 2025 (so not long) they will start paying

It the correct way of encouraging switching to cleaner cars

Hybrids used to be free under 100mg of co2 plus free congestion charge , meant a lot of London's mini cabs became hyrbids

Same now with ev, they will pay congestion charge from 2025 aswell but ATM it's free and you are seeing a lot of EV mini cabs in London

Tax incentives are a key part of encouraging switching to new cleaner technology to help soften the blow

But everything pays in the end

"But it’s not just new EVs that will have to pay road tax from 2025: electric cars first registered from April 2017 will have the £165 fee applied to them retrospectively, ending the exemption they had previously benefited from."

They will also have to pay the excess duty based on value (over 40k)

My kia I'll be buying in 2025 won't be tax free even though will be 2 years old

 

[clubchamp98]

EVs are currently free but from 2025 (so not long) they will start paying

It the correct way of encouraging switching to cleaner cars

Hybrids used to be free under 100mg of co2 plus free congestion charge , meant a lot of London's mini cabs became hyrbids

Same now with ev, they will pay congestion charge from 2025 aswell but ATM it's free and you are seeing a lot of EV mini cabs in London

Tax incentives are a key part of encouraging switching to new cleaner technology to help soften the blow

But everything pays in the end

"But it’s not just new EVs that will have to pay road tax from 2025: electric cars first registered from April 2017 will have the £165 fee applied to them retrospectively, ending the exemption they had previously benefited from."

They will also have to pay the excess duty based on value (over 40k)

My kia I'll be buying in 2025 won't be tax free even though will be 2 years old

They should pay as well.
Tax incentives are great but a lot of people can’t afford an EV .
But are subsidising EV drivers through the VED payments on ICE cars.

Maybe that’s why the roads are so bad losing so much revenue through tax incentives.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

They should pay as well.
Tax incentives are great but a lot of people can’t afford an EV .
But are subsidising EV drivers through the VED payments on ICE cars.

Maybe that’s why the roads are so bad losing so much revenue through tax incentives.

The roads are so bad due to under funding for years and climate change

We can point at the weight of EVs but they don't weigh that much more than cars full of people .. and certainly not more than buses, vans and lorries

Lack of swift action to repair roads when they first break and changing climate with extreme heat , cold and rain have made the roads like this

 

[clubchamp98]

The roads are so bad due to under funding for years and climate change

We can point at the weight of EVs but they don't weigh that much more than cars full of people .. and certainly not more than buses, vans and lorries

Lack of swift action to repair roads when they first break and changing climate with extreme heat , cold and rain have made the roads like this

EVs full of people do weigh more.!

Its underfunded because there are to many exemptions on VED.
If you use the roads you should pay the VED like other people .
based on the unladen weight of the car.

your other points I agree with.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

EVs full of people do weigh more.!

Its underfunded because there are to many exemptions on VED.
If you use the roads you should pay the VED like other people .
based on the unladen weight of the car.

your other points I agree with.

Rather than a very expensive to implement, pay by mile scheme and or an expensive to administer road fund tax, scrap both and stick a bit on petrol / EV charging .
Then truly the people who drive more will pay more.

Why complicate it ?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Rather than a very expensive to implement, pay by mile scheme and or an expensive to administer road fund tax, scrap both and stick a bit on petrol / EV charging .
Then truly the people who drive more will pay more.

Why complicate it ?

Pay by mile is very simple


Report your milage here is a bill

You could add it on charging but how will you force those on very old EV chargers to switch to those who report kw sent to car?

How would you stop people just plugging in granny cables to avoid the charge

Make mot from year 1 not 3 and suddenly you have everyone's milage

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Pay by mile is very simple


Report your milage here is a bill

You could add it on charging but how will you force those on very old EV chargers to switch to those who report kw sent to car?

How would you stop people just plugging in granny cables to avoid the charge

Make mot from year 1 not 3 and suddenly you have everyone's milage

But you can’t give people an annual bill, it relies on mileage being reported or tracked which has a set up cost and ongoing admin costs.

The fuel companies (Petrol and leccy) are already tax collectors, they have the infrastructure already set up, so simply adding a bit on the price is the easiest and fairest way to pay for road upkeep.

For those on a granny charger, they are likely to be low mileage users or current road tax is negligible,
It would be easy to up the tariff on home chargers too

 

[Deleted member 21784]

But you can’t give people an annual bill, it relies on mileage being reported or tracked which has a set up cost and ongoing admin costs.

The fuel companies (Petrol and leccy) are already tax collectors, they have the infrastructure already set up, so simply adding a bit on the price is the easiest and fairest way to pay for road upkeep.

For those on a granny charger, they are likely to be low mileage users or current road tax is negligible,
It would be easy to up the tariff on home chargers too

I do a lot of my charging via granny charger doing 12000 miles a year

It would be hard to set up on home tariffs until they can 100% say right this is for the car

Otherwise house electric for all will increase ev or not