Chipping with aggressive forward shaft lean

[Reemul]

My son is 10 and has golf lessons. He is taught the lean method, inside back foot lean and make clean contact. I was taught to stay upright with no lean.

Both seem to work fine.

 

[3565]

It depends what shot is required. After seeing Ian Clarke I've stuck by his method but have experimented on various shaft positions but keeping the ball in the same position in my stance. I've now got more of a variation of shots by just changing the shaft angle.

 

[GreggerKBR]

Bobmac had the right idea (as usual)! I've been through this cycle. Quite humbling.
Maybe I can share something to help you.

I'm now using my knowledge/understanding to use the clubs bounce more and move away from excessive forward shaft lean unless the shot I see requires that. If my pro told me to do this, I'd be put well off him.

The problem with (EFSL) "excessive forward shaft lean" is that it does NOT guarantee ball first! Please don't listen to anyone that tells you that, they are wrong, if you really need me to I'll find video to prove it or make my own.

Using the loft/bounce does mean that if you are slightly early/late (before or after) with the strike and releasing the shaft more or less properly with a reasonable swing arc, then it will not have such a dramatic outcome on the spin and quality of your shot. Quite the opposite to EFSL.
Put simply - it's much more forgiving than EFSL.

Low-point is the bottom of the swing, lowest point the clubheads movement. Usually you want this just beyond the ball.
EFSL does tend to go with a steep AOA (angle of attack) which sends the low-point on steeper deeper track - which usually means ball first - but because the leading edge is presenting with a steeper AOA it's about understanding/knowledge. You can still fat it if your move your low-point backwards. And thin it if you shallow out. But - it is quite possible to pull up on the handle, shallow the AOA and nip it or blade it. Or push down or forward further... This is why so many players move on from this technique.

But, it's up to you - if you can execute it under pressure you will probably stick with it. Even if the best Pro's in the world tell you it's flawed.

You can use different methods but the key is understanding why the bad shots happen.
If you use EFSL you need to understand the clubheads arc and the low point.
You need to understand how it removes the interaction of the sole and bounce of club and introduces the leading edge.

James Ridyard's stuff is actually brilliant to help learn. Expensive, but you get what you pay for and a good short game is worth a lot!

 

[Roops]

I used to chip with the shaft lean thing going on and could never get a really consistent contact. So I tried the Butch Harmon approach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HttXJN0u5E8

Much more consistent and chipping better than I ever have. The little soft wrist break really gets that bit of zip. Horses for courses I guess.

 

[Dasit]

Nothing more confusing than chipping


Whenever I find a method that works I see another method that is meant to be better and get stuck in some limbo between a few styles, duffmania ensues

 

[Yant]

The forward lean assures that you hit the ball before the ground, basically, even if the ball is sitting down in a divot or higher grass or something like that. You also put more spin on the ball that way, so, even though you reduce the loft and the ball seems to skip forward more, you can be quite aggressive with it, because it stops quicker. I use that technique whenever I have the feeling I have to whack the ball out of something, while I normally like to chip using the bounce a bit more (so I do basically the opposite of what S17er does ). I use absolutely no wrist hinge on the shaft forward chips, while I get slightly more flicky on the ones with bounce.

Agree with this.

 

[garyinderry]

I used to chip with the shaft lean thing going on and could never get a really consistent contact. So I tried the Butch Harmon approach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HttXJN0u5E8

Much more consistent and chipping better than I ever have. The little soft wrist break really gets that bit of zip. Horses for courses I guess.

Tbf as good a video as that is and ive watched it many times in the last few years, it isnt a great technique for your average player.

You need a real good tight lie to get the beautiful contact and spin.

You can see from the results that it is a little erratic. You need to practice it quite a bit and have the technique down.

Its also more of a pitch than a chip and run shot.

Ideal place to play it would be into the wind at links over a bunker, throw it to the hole and stop it

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This for me and definitely no shaft lean

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/videos/short-game-tips/the-new-way-to-chip

 

[ScienceBoy]

I put the ball on my back foot and hands/grip on my lead thigh.

I don't think I have excessive forward lean but compared to others it would be.

I generally don't duff chips, I think this is because of my setup and strike. I use the bounce, play it like a putt and don't swing back round my body.

I must get a vid of my chipping and put it up one day.

 

[garyinderry]

I put the ball on my back foot and hands/grip on my lead thigh.

I don't think I have excessive forward lean but compared to others it would be.

I generally don't duff chips, I think this is because of my setup and strike. I use the bounce, play it like a putt and don't swing back round my body.

I must get a vid of my chipping and put it up one day.

Please do. Would be nice to see.

I can't see how you are using the bounce with that set up. Playing the ball off your back foot and Leaning the shaft forward like that negates the bounce angle.

 

[garyinderry]

Bobmac had the right idea (as usual)! I've been through this cycle. Quite humbling.
Maybe I can share something to help you.

I'm now using my knowledge/understanding to use the clubs bounce more and move away from excessive forward shaft lean unless the shot I see requires that. If my pro told me to do this, I'd be put well off him.

The problem with (EFSL) "excessive forward shaft lean" is that it does NOT guarantee ball first! Please don't listen to anyone that tells you that, they are wrong, if you really need me to I'll find video to prove it or make my own.

Using the loft/bounce does mean that if you are slightly early/late (before or after) with the strike and releasing the shaft more or less properly with a reasonable swing arc, then it will not have such a dramatic outcome on the spin and quality of your shot. Quite the opposite to EFSL.
Put simply - it's much more forgiving than EFSL.

Low-point is the bottom of the swing, lowest point the clubheads movement. Usually you want this just beyond the ball.
EFSL does tend to go with a steep AOA (angle of attack) which sends the low-point on steeper deeper track - which usually means ball first - but because the leading edge is presenting with a steeper AOA it's about understanding/knowledge. You can still fat it if your move your low-point backwards. And thin it if you shallow out. But - it is quite possible to pull up on the handle, shallow the AOA and nip it or blade it. Or push down or forward further... This is why so many players move on from this technique.

But, it's up to you - if you can execute it under pressure you will probably stick with it. Even if the best Pro's in the world tell you it's flawed.

You can use different methods but the key is understanding why the bad shots happen.
If you use EFSL you need to understand the clubheads arc and the low point.
You need to understand how it removes the interaction of the sole and bounce of club and introduces the leading edge.

James Ridyard's stuff is actually brilliant to help learn. Expensive, but you get what you pay for and a good short game is worth a lot!

He has bucket loads of videos on YouTube. Not just his own but with a host of other YouTube pros.

Did you go for lessons with him?