Childcare costs more than mortgages...

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Why do people think that the state should subsidise their children ? If you wish to have children you should be prepared to pay for them, if you wish to work & have children you should be prepared to pay for their care costs, nurseries in the main are private enterprises and charge what the local economy will allow, they are a business!!

If you wish your child to go to university you should expect them to pay for it, they are adults receiving adult education for which they will allegedly eventually earn more than those without degree level education, they are therefore investing in their future.

 

[MarkA]

Amen to that !:thup:

 

[JustOne]

No, it really is very simple - do not whine about the cost of child care, it's irritating. Your decision to have a child then deal with the consequences.

Isn't that like whinging about shooting 99 and someone telling you not to play golf then? This forum is BUILT on the back of whinging

 

[Hacker Khan]

Or we could of course assume that you were trolling as you've made no other useful contribution to this thread!

Not trolling, just saying that a theme from this thread seems to be that parents should not have children unless a parent/wife will give up their career and can afford to stop working for so many years to look after it/them. So it's going back to making people chose between a career or children. Which in 2014 in a world of job insecurity, high mortgages, student debts, high fuel costs etc etc etc and the general liberation of women is, in my opinion, a bit out of date.

I'm not advocating people shelling out babies if they have no obvious means to support them and thinking they will just rely on the state to do so. But then again I am very uncomfortable with making people (and yet again, this will be mostly women) feel guilty about having a career/job and the 'pressure' (examples being from several comments made in this thread) to stay at home and look after children. As I hoped the world had moved on a bit from that.

 

[Alex1975]

Some interesting views on here!

 

[stevie_r]

Isn't that like whinging about shooting 99 and someone telling you not to play golf then? This forum is BUILT on the back of whinging

Errm no, they are entirely different.

 

[JustOne]

Errm no, they are entirely different.

No, it really is very simple - do not whine about the cost of child care, it's irritating. Your decision to have a child then deal with the consequences.

No, it really is very simple - do not whine about shooting 99, it's irritating. Your decision to play golf then deal with the consequences.

Fair enough, ... they look the same to me :thup:

 

[Rooter]

Some interesting views on here!

you gonna share yours Al?

 

[Foxholer]

Or we could of course assume that you were trolling as you've made no other useful contribution to this thread!

[troll mode]
Your wording is either self-contradictory, contains a (confusing) redundancy or sequenced incorrectly!
[/troll mode]
That post of HK's was certainly relevant to the topic - as was at least 1 other of his (a presumption on my part).

I know of 2 pairs of folk where the guy parked his career and looked after kids while his wife continued hers - child-care having been rejected!

 

[Alex1975]

you gonna share yours Al?

Ye ok, first things first, when it comes to children EVERYONE has a different experience!!! So I dont think anyone is right on wrong (unless they are wrong!).

My wife and I were late to have May, our life plan was not to have children but we changed our minds. When preggo my wife's intent was to go back to work, there were no emotions involved, we did not know what was to come. After 6 months we suddenly realized that we would be better off by something like £20 if she went back to work and that she would not get to spend much time with May.

She has not been back to work since, all emotions are now clearly involved and the girls get to be together every day. We are skint, I don't care, we have made the appropriate sacrifices and I would do the same thing again. I LOVE the fact that I have been (just) able to afford them the time to be together in these formative years.

For me, I dont understand why you would make something in your image and then have someone else bring it up so you can still afford to get a curry on Friday night.


I am a soppy git and it is different for everyone!

 

[MarkA]

Not trolling, just saying that a theme from this thread seems to be that parents should not have children unless a parent/wife will give up their career and can afford to stop working for so many years to look after it/them. So it's going back to making people chose between a career or children. Which in 2014 in a world of job insecurity, high mortgages, student debts, high fuel costs etc etc etc and the general liberation of women is, in my opinion, a bit out of date.

I'm not advocating people shelling out babies if they have no obvious means to support them and thinking they will just rely on the state to do so. But then again I am very uncomfortable with making people (and yet again, this will be mostly women) feel guilty about having a career/job and the 'pressure' (examples being from several comments made in this thread) to stay at home and look after children. As I hoped the world had moved on a bit from that.

No, the theme of the thread is don't moan about the cost of childcare if you have kids if you both insist on working, It's your choice after all!
2014 is definitely a time of insecurity and it effects everyone - if you are planning a family or have one, you do what suits you and you can afford, be it working or staying at home. What we don't need is someone bleating about the costs and implications of their decisions - the 'its not fair brigade'. You didn't have to have them or that many did you? You make your choice and stick with it, previous generations coped with different pressures so how about just getting on with it like they did?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why do people think that the state should subsidise their children ? If you wish to have children you should be prepared to pay for them, if you wish to work & have children you should be prepared to pay for their care costs, nurseries in the main are private enterprises and charge what the local economy will allow, they are a business!!

If you wish your child to go to university you should expect them to pay for it, they are adults receiving adult education for which they will allegedly eventually earn more than those without degree level education, they are therefore investing in their future.

We have to remember that the state is providing for the welfare of the children - not the parent. When you view it as benefits going to the 'feckless' parent - then that can stir all sorts of negative emotions - but the alternative is for the state to not provide for the welfare and wellbeing of the children. Do we as a country want to see the streets filled with hungry and poorly clothed children begging in teh streets because their 'feckless' parents don't get money from the state to support them?

Women going out to work and childcare etc - very different issue from child benefits and they shouldn't be conflated,

 

[MarkA]

Ye ok, first things first, when it comes to children EVERYONE has a different experience!!! So I dont think anyone is right on wrong (unless they are wrong!).

My wife and I were late to have May, our life plan was not to have children but we changed our minds. When preggo my wife's intent was to go back to work, there were no emotions involved, we did not know what was to come. After 6 months we suddenly realized that we would be better off by something like £20 if she went back to work and that she would not get to spend much time with May.

She has not been back to work since, all emotions are now clearly involved and the girls get to be together every day. We are skint, I don't care, we have made the appropriate sacrifices and I would do the same thing again. I LOVE the fact that I have been (just) able to afford them the time to be together in these formative years.

For me, I dont understand why you would make something in your image and then have someone else bring it up so you can still afford to get a curry on Friday night.


I am a soppy git and it is different for everyone!

I for one, applaud your ethos!

 

[Rooter]

Ye ok, first things first, when it comes to children EVERYONE has a different experience!!! So I dont think anyone is right on wrong (unless they are wrong!).

My wife and I were late to have May, our life plan was not to have children but we changed our minds. When preggo my wife's intent was to go back to work, there were no emotions involved, we did not know what was to come. After 6 months we suddenly realized that we would be better off by something like £20 if she went back to work and that she would not get to spend much time with May.

She has not been back to work since, all emotions are now clearly involved and the girls get to be together every day. We are skint, I don't care, we have made the appropriate sacrifices and I would do the same thing again. I LOVE the fact that I have been (just) able to afford them the time to be together in these formative years.

For me, I dont understand why you would make something in your image and then have someone else bring it up so you can still afford to get a curry on Friday night.


I am a soppy git and it is different for everyone!

Thanks Al, pretty similar opinion to me. We did stick our first 2 into nursery for 2 x 1/2 days per week, simply for interaction with other kids, this did allow my mrs to do a little part time work. We are just about to do the same with our youngest as she doesnt really get to play with anyone her age, only her older siblings.

 

[Alex1975]

Thanks Al, pretty similar opinion to me. We did stick our first 2 into nursery for 2 x 1/2 days per week, simply for interaction with other kids, this did allow my mrs to do a little part time work. We are just about to do the same with our youngest as she doesnt really get to play with anyone her age, only her older siblings.

Yep, May will be 3 soon and its become clear its time she had more contact with other little ones without mum being there. Scary for me but she comes back buzzing from her new little school a couple of morning a week.

 

[SocketRocket]

We have to remember that the state is providing for the welfare of the children - not the parent. When you view it as benefits going to the 'feckless' parent - then that can stir all sorts of negative emotions - but the alternative is for the state to not provide for the welfare and wellbeing of the children. Do we as a country want to see the streets filled with hungry and poorly clothed children begging in teh streets because their 'feckless' parents don't get money from the state to support them?

Women going out to work and childcare etc - very different issue from child benefits and they shouldn't be conflated,

When Parents make a life changing (but natural) decision to create children then this comes with certain responsibilities, not of the State but of the parents. The decision to have children is in complete contravention to a Mother wishing to peruse a career in the same manner as a single Woman. Expect to be hard up, expect for the Father to have to work long and hard hours to support his family. If the Mother decides she wants a career that is more important than raising her offspring then organise the husband to take over her natural role. But! please don't bleat on that you are hard done by!!

 

[Break90]

When our little one was born (she's 8 this year), we were lucky enough to be able to afford for my wife to take the first 18 months off and stay home with her.

Then my mum retired and offered her services as a full time nanny, enabling my wife to go back to work, 3 days a week at first, so the best of both worlds I suppose.

The extra money came in handy, we were not subjected to (IMO) exorbitant childcare fees of 250 per week, and the kid was very well looked after by a member of the family. Not a situation everyone will be in a position to take advantage of, I accept, but it worked very well for us.

Littl'un is now at full time school, wife works 35 hours a week, and we use pre-school and after school clubs (for which there is a charge).

We have also kept child benefit as neither of our incomes are 50k individually, although jointly well in excess of 50k. I accept that there is a case to be made for the threshold to be based on household income as opposed to individual, however thems the rules. The 80 odd quid a month doesnt even come close to covering the pre/after school care costs though.