Changes to Highest Male Handicap

[Hobbit]

I genuinely don't care if they raise the handicap limit just so long as those coming into the game are looked after properly. There's no reason why a 40 handicapper can't be scratch h'cap for etiquette in a very short space of time, including pace of play. Bring 'em in. I'd happily have one in my 4 ball - at least I stand a chance of beating them gross...

We need more golfers, and we need to be more inclusive to achieve that. But that shouldn't mean just open the door and let them flounder. Bring 'em in but educate them.

We've all been new starters once, hitting well over the hundred. It was the older, established golfers that educated us. There's less time for people to do that now, with life's stresses etc, but why not formalise that education as they've done in countries like Germany. To join a club you also had to have a course of lessons, inc rules and etiquette, before you were given a handicap and allowed in comps.

Do it, but do it properly.

 

[chrisd]

I think it is a massive leap to connect golf participation and higher handicap limits.

Additionally, good golf clubs are not struggling for members. The one I plan to join in Yorkshire has a waiting list. As does the one I would join if I stayed in Sussex. I think there is a critical mass of the number of viable golf clubs in the UK and it is dictated by market forces. Golf has been around for hundreds of years and will be for hundreds more. Clubs will come and go.

My question to anyone saying that it is paramount that clubs recruit and that golf must be made to be a much more attractive proposition is very simple - why? There are only a finite number of current and potential future golfers and they will find the clubs that they want to join and the clubs with a profitable amount of people will thrive. Others won't. The golfing population and the market will determine the number of clubs that is optimum.

There will be booms and slumps of course but golf isn't about to disappear! Irrespective of how many shots people are given.

But a lot of clubs are struggling to survive and I think that's why the suggested changes are afoot - to get more participants = budgeted revenue. Im cynical enough to believe that if it wasn't for that reason most clubs and the R&A wouldn't be interested in changing things

 

[Snelly]

But a lot of clubs are struggling to survive and I think that's why the suggested changes are afoot - to get more participants = budgeted revenue. Im cynical enough to believe that if it wasn't for that reason most clubs and the R&A wouldn't be interested in changing things

I am inclined to agree with you Chris.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As a newcomer to Golf and someone who is in the process of putting their 3 cards in (1st 127 (really bad day for me) 2nd was 100) I am in favour of keeping the upper limit at 28.

It actually gives you something to work towards when starting out. If I knew that I could go out shoot well over 100 constantly and still get a genuine handicap then there is no carrot at the end of the stick to entice you to get better. The whole reason I've put a lot of effort in is to get a genuine 28 handicap. My last couple or rounds were 100 and 102. So for me the 100 is a genuine 28 handicap, which I am proud to have due to actually having to work towards it. The next card I hand in I am hoping to have in the 90's as I feel I just need to work on my putting and I'll be in the 90's.

The whole thing I like about golf is having, measurable targets to work towards. The first target being to shoot 100 and getting a valid handicap, that takes practice. I don't see a handicap of 40 as something to work towards.

I agree with others something there is a difference between a genuine 28 and someone who handed in 3 cards all 40 over and getting given a 28 handicap, but in making 28 genuine there is work and practice that is needed. That's not there with a 40 handicap.

Why would've your approach to the game changed if you had had 2 really bad days and hit another 127 instead of the 100, your handicap would still be 28, but in reality could've been 36-40 or whatever.
I think the upper handicap No is a red herring, If the guy of 36 wins a Comp, he's cut and hopefully continues to improve, it comes across as if all players with a Handicap of 19 or above are hacking it around but on hitting 18 you're suddenly a Golfer, isn't the Average handicap in the UK 14/15.

As stated before, just change the Comp rules and at least when playing with a 28 Handicapper in the future he'll/she'll be genuine, I've met more bandits in the the 11-18 range than 19-28.

 

[duncan mackie]

But a lot of clubs are struggling to survive and I think that's why the suggested changes are afoot - to get more participants = budgeted revenue. Im cynical enough to believe that if it wasn't for that reason most clubs and the R&A wouldn't be interested in changing things

The primary driver is the rationalisation of the USGA EGA and CONGU systems in 2020.
It would clearly be inappropriate to expect the other systems to introduce a lower limit and have to handle the consequences of that with their existing (paying) members.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I genuinely don't care if they raise the handicap limit just so long as those coming into the game are looked after properly. There's no reason why a 40 handicapper can't be scratch h'cap for etiquette in a very short space of time, including pace of play. Bring 'em in. I'd happily have one in my 4 ball - at least I stand a chance of beating them gross...

We need more golfers, and we need to be more inclusive to achieve that. But that shouldn't mean just open the door and let them flounder. Bring 'em in but educate them.

We've all been new starters once, hitting well over the hundred. It was the older, established golfers that educated us. There's less time for people to do that now, with life's stresses etc, but why not formalise that education as they've done in countries like Germany. To join a club you also had to have a course of lessons, inc rules and etiquette, before you were given a handicap and allowed in comps.

Do it, but do it properly.

Now that's nailing it.:thup::thup::thup:

Maybe give them some sort of PPE as well, like green tabards and a nice instructional video.

 

[KhalJimbo]

Why would've your approach to the game changed if you had had 2 really bad days and hit another 127 instead of the 100, your handicap would still be 28, but in reality could've been 36-40 or whatever.

Because the 127 was a real off day which I haven't shot scores like that since I first started playing. The reason 28 rather than 40 makes a difference to me, is to get to an actual meaningful handicap of a genuine 28 I have to put work and effort in to get to something like that as a first handicap. Where as there is no real work needed to gain a genuine 40 handicap to start.

 

[dankiz]

Male golfers should not receive more than one shot per hole !!! :thup:

Had the same conversation at a society day yesterday! Totally agree

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Because the 127 was a real off day which I haven't shot scores like that since I first started playing. The reason 28 rather than 40 makes a difference to me, is to get to an actual meaningful handicap of a genuine 28 I have to put work and effort in to get to something like that as a first handicap. Where as there is no real work needed to gain a genuine 40 handicap to start.

Not aimed at you personally, what I'm saying is, you're a genuine 28, in the future, someone could work just as hard as you and be a genuine 40, it does not lessen your or their effort, currently if someone works hard and puts three cards in and they are over 28, they still get 28, in the future if they are over 40, they will still get 40,
Like previously stated imo the entry number is a red herring as we all strive to reduce our handicaps and enjoy golf and to appease the scaremongering I believe comps should be in Divisions,

 

[Deleted member 16999]

i have been skiing this year for the second time in my life. the first year i spent threes days basically being a danger to people on the slopes. nearly killing myself in a race and generally mucking about. i could barely stop, only turn in one direction. in essence i could not really ski. i was a high handicap 40+ skier.

as soon as ski school was over, bravado came into play and the shout came up that we were heading for the summit. being a 'have a go' type of character i decided why not, i will give it a go. to the black run it is. how hard can it be? when we got to the top viability was down to about 5 feet. once we tried to go down the slope i soon realized i could not even stand up. it was torture. it took myself and another noob mate absolutely forever to get our feet back on solid ground. we spent the whole time sliding down on our belly's just to make it. swimming down a mountain will soon make you swallow your ego. during this time our more expericanced mates where having to wait and wait and wait. basically i was wasting their time as well as my own. all i was doing was stunting my own development as a skier.

after that i never ventured to the black runs again for the rest of the holiday. i took a step back and went on green and red runs. the red runs where still proving difficult but i persevered anyway. i thanked my friends as i knew they were constantly waiting for me.

on to our trip this year. armed this time with a helmet, at least i was a bit safer i deiced i was going to try and get the hang of this turning malarkey. i set off to the gentle green slopes and then moved to red as my confidence grew. for the first three days i was a mess as usual. constantly falling and having to have my mates wait for me. the cry rang out, "to the black run". i instantly knew for my enjoyment and theirs that this was my time to exit stage left. i told them i will work on the red slopes while they tackle pic blanc. sod that for a meeting.

anyhow, they were gone for ages tackling this monster while i worked on my technique. sure enough, something clicked and i was finally under control. i could turn left right and stop at will. when they next spotted me they were amazed at how i was getting on compared to the previous.

the moral of the story is that for my enjoyment and my buddies it was prudent that i knew my limits. used my time as best i could. had i followed them to pic blanc i would have wasted a lot of my own time and theirs plus i wouldn't be as good a skier as i now am.

sking isn't anywhere near as difficult to pick up as golf but the same principles of learning apply.

Using your principles of learning, what handicap would you allow to play Championship courses? Ian Carter from the BBC was given the opportunity to play the US Open Course on Monday, he plays off 9(something I dream of) and he went round in 98, 27 over par or 16 over handicap, using your analogy there is no way he was ready for it and should've played lesser courses first!

 

[garyinderry]

He broke 100. That's good enough for a 28 handicap.

So around 9 then


We all heard the stories from the guys on here who tackled Turnberry off the tiger tees. It was a disaster score wise and not suitable for most handicap golfers.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I really don't understand this idea that having a 36 / 40 handicap means people won't try to improve.
Pretty much everyone on this board has an aim to improve their handicap , be it to single figures, cat1 , 18.
Similarly if you are reviewing your golf over a season , I'd have always thought the main measure would be the change in your handicap not "I won 2 Sunday Stablefords and £25 of vouchers for the pro shop"
Maybe boards comps are slightly different but if it is so important these are won by a low handicap golfer make them scratch competitions, why allow someone with 10 shots, for example, to win them when other players may have scored a lower gross.

This board isn't typical of club golf. I know several club golfers who have no desire to improve, they want a handicap they can comfortably play to that gives them a chance to win without putting in to much effort or practice. of course winning means getting cut, the nett result of which is they complain about not being able to compete off their new handicap and welcome the 0.1s until they get back to their comfortable handicap. (Slightly off topic)

However, back on topic ,while I personally believe more than 28 is too much, I do know that many clubs dish out 28 handicaps to anyone who hasn't demonstrated the ability to play better when submitting their cards, this is just wrong. You shouldn't get a 28 handicap by default. So maybe (and I haven't thought this through too much) there is a place for higher handicaps (such as there is in junior golf) to enable people to play off a more accurate handicap and enjoy it more since in my experience, if you enjoy something, you will likely improve quicker.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I remember the stooshie when handicaps went from 18 to 24.
So...... for all of you 19 to 24 handicap male golfers who think 40 is too high.... perhaps you should think again.

No problem if the clubs handle it sensibly eg....29-40 handicap section with limits on peak time play.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I remember the stooshie when handicaps went from 18 to 24.
So...... for all of you 19 to 24 handicap male golfers who think 40 is too high.... perhaps you should think again.

No problem if the clubs handle it sensibly eg....29-40 handicap section with limits on peak time play.

Surely the 29-40 lot are already on the course, we just tell them to play to 28, and again isn't it scaremongering to think clubs are suddenly going to be innundated with masses of new clueless golfers slowing down play.

 

[Dan2501]

This board isn't typical of club golf. I know several club golfers who have no desire to improve, they want a handicap they can comfortably play to that gives them a chance to win without putting in to much effort or practice. of course winning means getting cut, the nett result of which is they complain about not being able to compete off their new handicap and welcome the 0.1s until they get back to their comfortable handicap. (Slightly off topic)

This is so true. I know 4 guys that always play together and go on holiday to play golf together and it's basically a battle to see who can keep their handicap the highest. Two of them have never had lessons, and feel like if their handicap is higher, they're more likely to win their group comps, not bothered about winning club comps, just interested in winning between the 4 of them. None of them practice, none of them are having regular lessons and from what I've seen, none of them want to get better. I'd say that's fairly common amongst club golfers across the country.

 

[garyinderry]

As mentioned earlier you are supposed to earn a 28 handicap.

How much this actually occurs I don't know. I've never heard of anyone refused a handicap.

I think, or at least I would hope that most people have enough sense to see how they are scoring themselves and see if they can post a score near a 28 handicap.


It's not just the theoretical slow 4 ball 40 handicaps. Many including myself think that you shouldn't be able to win anything, be that a big trophy or a handshake if you have not broken 100.

Most players will improve given time. Medals do not need to be handed out during the learning to crawl stage.

The day someone wins the June medal playing off 40 is the day amateur competitive golf had been diluted too much.

 

[rksquire]

Interesting thread, and the focus now seems to be on those starting the game. However, there's a large proportion currently playing whose handicaps are going the other way - seniors & the like - who will help keep clubs alive and kicking with their £££. Increasing their handicaps beyond 28 will keep them competitive for longer, they are certainly not bandits.
A guy in a society I play in, loves golf and plays off (slipped to) 28 and is never in the prizes. I wouldn't begrudge giving him a higher handicap.

 

[dewsweeper]

I think it is a massive leap to connect golf participation and higher handicap limits.

Additionally, good golf clubs are not struggling for members. The one I plan to join in Yorkshire has a waiting list. As does the one I would join if I stayed in Sussex. I think there is a critical mass of the number of viable golf clubs in the UK and it is dictated by market forces. Golf has been around for hundreds of years and will be for hundreds more. Clubs will come and go.

My question to anyone saying that it is paramount that clubs recruit and that golf must be made to be a much more attractive proposition is very simple - why? There are only a finite number of current and potential future golfers and they will find the clubs that they want to join and the clubs with a profitable amount of people will thrive. Others won't. The golfing population and the market will determine the number of clubs that is optimum.

There will be booms and slumps of course but golf isn't about to disappear! Irrespective of how many shots people are given.

Hear,hear.
I ,too belong to a well run,progressive club ,still able to have a joining fee.
I did ,however serve a 16 year apprenticeship playing municipal courses in and around London ,plus being a member of a golf society.
I do not think one size fits all with regard to h/caps but regard raising the top limit will do nothing for the game.
Dewsweeper

 

[garyinderry]

Interesting thread, and the focus now seems to be on those starting the game. However, there's a large proportion currently playing whose handicaps are going the other way - seniors & the like - who will help keep clubs alive and kicking with their £££. Increasing their handicaps beyond 28 will keep them competitive for longer, they are certainly not bandits.
A guy in a society I play in, loves golf and plays off (slipped to) 28 and is never in the prizes. I wouldn't begrudge giving him a higher handicap.

As I said In the last thread on this topic I.am quite happy for older gents and ladies to have an increased handicap.

Just not inclined to afford those that havnt yet put in the hours.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As I said In the last thread on this topic I.am quite happy for older gents and ladies to have an increased handicap.

Just not inclined to afford those that havnt yet put in the hours.

Some are naturals and come straight in a lot lower than 28, surely the future of the game is more important than those on the way out, we'd need to encourage people to take up the sport, the wrinklies keep playing regardless.