Changes to Highest Male Handicap

[Deleted member 16999]

My angle on this is a simple one. What possible satisfaction can be gained from shooting 112 and claiming a nett level round. Shoot the 112 by all means, and enjoy your golf for what it is, a fun game, but to get amongst the prizes with that score, I'm afraid I'd be embarrassed. By the way, I am by no means a low handicapper. I average low to mid nineties.

But it's OK for genuine 28 handicapper to do it, but not a 29 or 30 etc, Played in Divisions not an issue, he/she beats her/his peer group.

 

[Craigg]

But it's OK for genuine 28 handicapper to do it, but not a 29 or 30 etc, Played in Divisions not an issue, he/she beats her/his peer group.

I see your point, but there has to be a line, and 28, gross 100 being the magic figure to conquer has served us well. If you go to 40, and division it, you may as well go to 50, 60 etc. Where do you stop? I'm sorry, but there is no satisfaction to be gained in hacking it around in those scores, I've been there and hated it. I didn't even dare to join a club until I could break 100 on a regular basis, never mind enter a competition!

 

[FairwayDodger]

I understand the point of view of the low handicapper, Gary has put them down very well previously on this thread, unfortunately you have reinforced my point, it's all about you and the problems you'll face playing the high handicapper, if you don't want to risk losing, don't enter the comp.
I don't think many if anybody who enters 3 cards gets a handicap will immediately start entering Matchplay comps, just think low handicappers are taking the extreme point of view to justify not changing the top level. I think if it gets more playing goid on them, and as also previously stated, comps should be played in divisions so your scenario never happens.

Not sure if you're deliberately missing my point. It's NOT about winning or losing. It's that the gulf is too big at opposite ends of the spectrum to produce any sort of genuine competition and without that spark of interest there is simply no point. All of these matches will be determined by the level of awfulness in the 50 handicapper's play on that day, what the low handicapper does will be almost entirely irrelevant. Why would they bother?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I see your point, but there has to be a line, and 28, gross 100 being the magic figure to conquer has served us well. If you go to 40, and division it, you may as well go to 50, 60 etc. Where do you stop? I'm sorry, but there is no satisfaction to be gained in hacking it around in those scores, I've been there and hated it. I didn't even dare to join a club until I could break 100 on a regular basis, never mind enter a competition!

Entirely agree, These proposals by the looks of it are going to be introduced, rather than be negative about something I'll have no say in, I'd rather try and find the positives, will it cause problems?, Yes, will it encourage participation?, hopefully.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Not sure if you're deliberately missing my point. It's NOT about winning or losing. It's that the gulf is too big at opposite ends of the spectrum to produce any sort of genuine competition and without that spark of interest there is simply no point. All of these matches will be determined by the level of awfulness in the 50 handicapper's play on that day, what the low handicapper does will be almost entirely irrelevant. Why would they bother?

If it was me, I wouldn't and hopefully 99% wouldn't either, but it will only be the rules of that competition that will allow them to, and that's the area's, imo, we should be looking at, helping to integrate and educate rather than stopping them.

 

[FairwayDodger]

If it was me, I wouldn't and hopefully 99% wouldn't either, but it will only be the rules of that competition that will allow them to, and that's the area's, imo, we should be looking at, helping to integrate and educate rather than stopping them.

I meant why would the low handicapper bother. That's what I'm getting at - encourage beginners and high handicaps without discouraging everyone else.

For me, as Gary describes, the way to encourage people at that level is not to fast track them into mainstream competition golf before they are ready just by giving them stupidly high handicaps.

By all means increase the handicap limit but do it in conjunction with some innovation around the club - more social golf, comps exclusively for these very high handicaps, structured lessons etc etc. But please don't ask someone to give fifty shots in a match!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I meant why would the low handicapper bother. That's what I'm getting at - encourage beginners and high handicaps without discouraging everyone else.

For me, as Gary describes, the way to encourage people at that level is not to fast track them into mainstream competition golf before they are ready just by giving them stupidly high handicaps.

By all means increase the handicap limit but do it in conjunction with some innovation around the club - more social golf, comps exclusively for these very high handicaps, structured lessons etc etc. But please don't ask someone to give fifty shots in a match!

The reason the low handicapper would enter is the prestige of winning the competition and if the competition rules allow the high handicapper to enter, again I would say the problem is the competition rules. I would really really hope once these Handicap limits are raised Clubs would do the sensible thing and review all comps so as to ensure all Golfers, regardless of Handicap, are catered for.

 

[MadAdey]

Not sure if you're deliberately missing my point. It's NOT about winning or losing. It's that the gulf is too big at opposite ends of the spectrum to produce any sort of genuine competition and without that spark of interest there is simply no point. All of these matches will be determined by the level of awfulness in the 50 handicapper's play on that day, what the low handicapper does will be almost entirely irrelevant. Why would they bother?

Your wasting your breath, he just can't see what the problem is. I, like most low handicap players couldn't give a toss about winning a monthly medal and getting a £20 voucher for the pro shop. We know that there is not much chance of us winning a handicap competition and only play to lower our handicap as that is the biggest prize in golf.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Your wasting your breath, he just can't see what the problem is. I, like most low handicap players couldn't give a toss about winning a monthly medal and getting a £20 voucher for the pro shop. We know that there is not much chance of us winning a handicap competition and only play to lower our handicap as that is the biggest prize in golf.

No need for you to be rude, if you actually took the time to read what FairwayDodger is posting about you'd see we are talking about matchplay, I've already stated I'd agreed with Gary and others about Monthly Medals and Stableford comps and the possible mine fields that await.

 

[MadAdey]

I think this is an argument where people will need to agree to disagree. I personally do not see the need for this change and if people think it will encourage more people to take up the game I think they are mistaken.

The biggest reason I here from people to not join a golf club is that they do not have the time to play regular golf. The reason I here from people why they are stuck with a high handicap, is because they do not have the time to practice.

So is raising the handicap limit going to help this problem, or is it going to make it worse by encouraging people who struggle to break 110, to play in competition.

 

[Hobbit]

I agree with FD in so much as matchplay can be uncompetitive as a one-on-one competition when so much of it becomes an artificial calculation. In effect, it bears little comparison to playing ability and sport, and more to do with maths. But in truth, low-ish handicappers are already becoming disenfranchised from competing in many competitions. Its all well and good saying the low guys shouldn't enter but why push them away just to satisfy bringing someone else in? Your scratch to 12-ish guys can take a battering if there aren't divisions.

Its been discussed many times on here, that the low guys have to shoot course records to stand a chance of getting a sniff. I stopped playing most opens many years ago because of this. Preferring to only enter these comps to satisfy a desire to play a particular course. Increasing that differential further will on see this disparity between what a low guy can shoot and what he needs to shoot to be competitive grow further.

I've written in support of increasing the handicaps to bring more people into the sport, and of being more inclusive, but that shouldn't be at the expense of players who've put years of time, money and practice into improving. I feel that the UK has to adopt a similar process that has already been posted as is happening in Germany, if it wants to extend the allowances further. And on top of that, there needs to be more mid-handicap comps.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree with FD in so much as matchplay can be uncompetitive as a one-on-one competition when so much of it becomes an artificial calculation. In effect, it bears little comparison to playing ability and sport, and more to do with maths. But in truth, low-ish handicappers are already becoming disenfranchised from competing in many competitions. Its all well and good saying the low guys shouldn't enter but why push them away just to satisfy bringing someone else in? Your scratch to 12-ish guys can take a battering if there aren't divisions.

Its been discussed many times on here, that the low guys have to shoot course records to stand a chance of getting a sniff. I stopped playing most opens many years ago because of this. Preferring to only enter these comps to satisfy a desire to play a particular course. Increasing that differential further will on see this disparity between what a low guy can shoot and what he needs to shoot to be competitive grow further.

I've written in support of increasing the handicaps to bring more people into the sport, and of being more inclusive, but that shouldn't be at the expense of players who've put years of time, money and practice into improving. I feel that the UK has to adopt a similar process that has already been posted as is happening in Germany, if it wants to extend the allowances further. And on top of that, there needs to be more mid-handicap comps.

Fully agree with what you've put, the organisers have got to look after the best Golfers and the only way will be to put handicap limits on some comps or play in divisions, my comment about low handicappers not entering isn't being flipant, it's agreeing with FD that if you entered a matchplay comp with no Handicap limit you'd be risking getting drawn against a 40 to 50 handicapper and all the pitfalls that would bring.

 

[delc]

In a competition were i know the rules and the level of entry, YES no one forces me to enter and if a high handicapper has the round of his life good on him/her.
Golf in it's purest sense is scratch Golf, they are the best Golfers and no amount of worrying about the high handicapper having great day will change that.

The problem with that argument at club level is that every comp would be won by one of a very small number of elite Cat 1 golfers. There would be no point in the rest of the members entering! A perfect handicapping system (and CONGU is far from perfect) should give every member an equal chance of winning.

 

[Snelly]

You have never posted anything of merit on this forum. You are just a troll, nothing more.

If we ever have a forum sweepstake to see who gets blackballed next, fingers crossed that I draw you out of the hat.

Moronic.

Goodbye.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As my club seems to be going the route of allowing visitors on who don't have any handicap then raising handicap limit to 40 won't have any impact on that front.

As far as comps. Again been said here plenty of times already - but higher handicappers are generally too inconsistent to win 'major' club comps - sure some will shoot mega low netts in medals (that's why we have divisions) and the serious random element to, and nature of, higher handicappers golf means that I don't think there's going to be a big difference in number of times higher handicappers win 'single division' comps.

Speed of play might be a bit of an issue at first if you have fourballs of 40 handicappers on the course. BUT they'll soon learn they have to speed up their general speed round the course to accommodate the number of shots they are playing - as otherwise they will find that they are continually being hassled by following groups and having to let groups through. The issue, if there is one, I think would be transitional.