Changes to Highest Male Handicap

[palindromicbob]

I think it's actually a good idea with one proviso........new players should be allocated a handicap of no more than 28 as at present but should be able to rise to a higher handicap based on results, perhaps with an accelerated process (0.2 per round?). That way, the integrity of the current system would be protected, those who need 36 shots would quite quickly be catered for (providing they get enjoyment and don't give up!) and all clubs may get a few more much needed members.

The exceptional score increase provision would allow for more rapid adjustment without needing to increase to 0.2 back.

This isn't just about new golfers though. It would help keep some of the more seasoned golfer who's ability is fading from leaving the sport.

 

[MadAdey]

In the vast majority of cases, I would bet on a genuine 3-handicap seeing off a genuine 40-handicap in matchplay.

Problem is my round will be consistent with no blow up holes, his wont be. Lad I have been playing with is the best example of this last week. He starts +4, bogey par, I started birdie, bogey par. I give a shot a hole so found myself 1 down playing level par compared to his 5 over. I lost 3&2 and when we looked back I was 2 over through 16 and he was 27 over. Getting a par and loosing to a bogey nett birdie is harsh, but when there is that potential every hole it is going to be difficult. I can make 18 pars, but the person I'm playing needs 17 doubles and 1 single to win, that is going to be tough.

 

[palindromicbob]

Problem is my round will be consistent with no blow up holes, his wont be. Lad I have been playing with is the best example of this last week. He starts +4, bogey par, I started birdie, bogey par. I give a shot a hole so found myself 1 down playing level par compared to his 5 over. I lost 3&2 and when we looked back I was 2 over through 16 and he was 27 over. Getting a par and loosing to a bogey nett birdie is harsh, but when there is that potential every hole it is going to be difficult. I can make 18 pars, but the person I'm playing needs 17 doubles and 1 single to win, that is going to be tough.

So all that's needed is for the club to have a have different matchplay competitions to suit a multitude of people with different handicap requirements and you choose avoid entering the free for all ones and stick to the handicap limited ones or better yet scratch.

 

[garyinderry]

Slow play is already strangling the game. if for instance, a club managed to get 50 new members who hadn't played golf before and plonked them into the monthly medal with 40 handicaps. The whole show would grind to a halt.

I just don't see the need for people who have just taken up the game try to be competitive when their game simply isn't ready. There is nothing to stop them marking their own card off whatever handicap they want so they can chart their progress. They can play with their mates off whatever they want but not having 40 handicap men in the field during competition isn't snobbish, its common sense.

 

[MadAdey]

So all that's needed is for the club to have a have different matchplay competitions to suit a multitude of people with different handicap requirements and you choose avoid entering the free for all ones and stick to the handicap limited ones or better yet scratch.

Clubs would have to address it in what way they see it and then allow players to make their own mind up. I feel that allowing the max handicap to be 40 will create a big divide within golf clubs. There are players who turn their nose up at playing with 28 handicappers (me not being one of them). But raising it to 40 would probably see more people staring to have a problem playing with the new level of high handicapper.

It it would be interesting to see a forum poll on this subject.

 

[MadAdey]

Slow play is already strangling the game. if for instance, a club managed to get 50 new members who hadn't played golf before and plonked them into the monthly medal with 40 handicaps. The whole show would grind to a halt.

I just don't see the need for people who have just taken up the game try to be competitive when their game simply isn't ready. There is nothing to stop them marking their own card off whatever handicap they want so they can chart their progress. They can play with their mates off whatever they want but not having 40 handicap men in the field during competition isn't snobbish, its common sense.

+1 well said that man

 

[palindromicbob]

Slow play is already strangling the game. if for instance, a club managed to get 50 new members who hadn't played golf before and plonked them into the monthly medal with 40 handicaps. The whole show would grind to a halt.

I just don't see the need for people who have just taken up the game try to be competitive when their game simply isn't ready. There is nothing to stop them marking their own card off whatever handicap they want so they can chart their progress. They can play with their mates off whatever they want but not having 40 handicap men in the field during competition isn't snobbish, its common sense.

Or cater for the lower ability by having more stableford and less focus on medal rounds. Encourage club ambassadors to accompany groups of beginners and help guide them. Have fun 9 hole comps in the evenings.

Apply handicap limits to medals and push for increased understanding of clause 19.

Golf should be about more than sub 4 hours rounds of full on stroke play.

 

[garyinderry]

That is already there. It's called social golf. You get it most evenings at every club.

Pretty much anyone can hang around the first tee and get a game with someone in no time at all.

Plenty of fun golf on offer. " Competition golf when competent ". I am getting a polo made with that on if the 40 allowance is brought in.


Before people's heads explode again tomorrow, I've been there. I've been the 100 plus shooter. Everyone has. I played golf happily for years without the need or want of a handicap.my game was in decent shape before i even thought about accurately measuring it or pitting my wits against others. I am not being a handicap snob. This is just the way I see it.

 

[Liverbirdie]

That is already there. It's called social golf. You get it most evenings at every club.

Pretty much anyone can hang around the first tee and get a game with someone in no time at all.

Plenty of fun golf on offer. " Competition golf when competent ". I am getting a polo made with that on if the 40 allowance is brought in.


Before people's heads explode again tomorrow, I've been there. I've been the 100 plus shooter. Everyone has. I played golf happily for years without the need or want of a handicap.my game was in decent shape before i even thought about accurately measuring it or pitting my wits against others. I am not being a handicap snob. This is just the way I see it.

Its dead easy to sort:-

<28 handicap - stableford comps

>28 handicap - stapleford:thup:

 

[Slab]

Off topic I often find that some of the loudest voices for ‘a shot a hole’ from players I know comes from guys who’ve reached a decent standard but short of that next goal but instead of figuring out what they need to do to improve they spout the real men/shot a hole nonsense to hide their own failing and do this with no real thought to the purpose of a handicap to arrive at an arbitrary 18, I feel a bit sorry for them struggling to accept that they’ll never make single figures or whatever and any future golfing glory is instead dependent on nobbling a portion of the field.

Its the same guys who scream for 3/4 handicap comps, they know that means giving up 2-3 shots & the high guy has to give up 6-7. The low guy knows he's just made a nett 4 shot gain on a chunk of the field eliminating them as any form of competition (he knew he'd have to shoot high 30's for a place anyway so now he just plays the same, gets a 35 pointer instead of 37 and he'll take his chances to stack that up against the few cat 1 or 2 players most days... just another form of banditry really

On topic my gut says increasing to 40 won’t work but I’d like to hear more about the rational behind it, I fear that with a competition gulf as wide as this then divisional comps will become the norm even for weekly comps (even roll-ups) so a 40 handicapper will never play in the same competition against a guy off 5 and that would defeat the purpose of having a handicap system in the first place. This would be followed by divisions within the membership and everyone loses

 

[Smiffy]

That is already there. It's called social golf. You get it most evenings at every club.
Pretty much anyone can hang around the first tee and get a game with someone in no time at all.

So you go down to the club for an evening knock on your own. You are invited to join a group of 3 40 handicapped golfers.
Do you
A) Decline respectfully
B) Run for the hills
C) Phone the wife up and tell her to leave the landing light on
D) Phone work and tell them you could be late in the morning
E) Get an abacus out of your bag

 

[Imurg]

An awful lot of people are assuming that someone with a handicap of 28 is a "genuine" 28'er....
No disrespect to any 28'er but there can be a mile of difference between 27.4 and 28....
Saying that "you can't have a 3 ball of 40 handicappers in the middle of a medal" - who's to say it doesn't already happen? These groups exist...put your 3 cards in scoring +40 on each card and you get a 28 handicap - how does that work?
If you need, on average, 40 shots to be competitive then you should get 40 shots.
Or do we just reduce everyone's handicap accordingly... So all the 10's can play off 7, all the 18's off 13 and all the 5's off 3.....
Handicapping is supposed to level the playing field. As long as they are accurate, why can't they be up to 40 or even more?
Fragger's FIL plays off something like 47 in his society...he's rubbish, useless and hopeless. But it allows him to enjoy the game and a chance to be competitive.
Isn't that what the handicap system is designed for?
For many, too much emphasis is placed on winning.
More emphasis should be on getting your handicap down.

And slow play isn't, and never has been, the preserve of the high handicap player.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Better get used to it, "that's a par for 5 points then !! "

 

[shortstuff]

40HP? OMG this would pave the way for a ridiculous amount of banditry.

 

[shortstuff]

So you go down to the club for an evening knock on your own. You are invited to join a group of 3 40 handicapped golfers.
Do you
A) Decline respectfully
B) Run for the hills
C) Phone the wife up and tell her to leave the landing light on
D) Phone work and tell them you could be late in the morning
E) Get an abacus out of your bag

A + B

 

[Imurg]

40HP? OMG this would pave the way for a ridiculous amount of banditry.

But how many actual, real-life Bandits are there..?
We all brandish the word when someone else has a good round but they're not really cushioning their handicap on the whole.
Simple solution - stop prizes.
Maybe have a 2's pot but make the prize of winningnthe competition a handicap cut rather than monetary. Take the emphasis away from winning money and shift it onto winning a handicap cut.
It'll never happen though...

 

[phil78]

+1 to Imurg's posts above

If someone needs a handicap that high then let them have it and move on, concentrate on your own game instead of worrying what others are doing.

 

[Snelly]

[/B]

Clearly you are young enough to not remember when the mens max h/c was 18, bladed clubs and small balls.

Precisely. Then it went to 24 which was absolutely ample.


My view is that golf has gone mad - the idea of increased upper handicap thresholds seems completely ludicrous to me.

A shot a hole plus 4 spare for the hardest holes is plenty for an adult male so 22 would seem to be an appropriate limit to me. 28 handicap for seniors and juniors that need more if in the infancy of their development or twilight of their career. Up to 36 for ladies but again, some form of lower limit for those that are not juniors or seniors.

I am not being a handicap snob. I am basing this on my experience of golf, having seen thousands of players of all standards over the past 35 years of playing at dozens of courses.

My opinion, and I appreciate it is somewhat divisive and incendiary, is that more than 24 over par for a normal bloke who has played for a while is utterly rubbish as a sporting achievement. It represents very poor standard of play and common sense would suggest that such a round would be peppered with some awful shots, poor decision making, lapses in concentration and an overriding inability to perform at an acceptable level.

It is the golfing equivalent of playing a frame of snooker and being unable to pot anything but the simplest ball over the pocket. Or a game of tennis where you are basically incapable of getting a serve in play for half the time. This equates to being rubbish at your chosen sporting pursuit. Same for business - you shouldn't get your annual bonus if you aren't very good at your job and miss three quarters of your set goals.

I appreciate this may be unpalatable to hear but in golf, you are not supposed to be pleased with a nett 68 if your gross score was almost 100. Shooting that score is pretty useless in terms of the level of prowess required.

And yet plenty of you seem to think that it is okay for someone at this very low level of skill to be given a big silver trophy, their name on the board and a nice prize from the top shelf for winning Captains Day or similar at your club? I just cannot agree. This is rewarding a pretty abject effort and it is not right.

In golf you are supposed to try and get par on a hole. It isn't a holy grail that is out of reach - it is what you are meant to score! This means being at least good enough to hit the fairway some of the time, get near the green and have a short game that is half decent. When these things are achieved to a reasonable standard then bogey golf should be possible in fair weather conditions. If you have been playing golf for a significant length of time and can't manage even the basics of the game then you have to accept that it might not be for you OR you aren't good enough YET to win prizes and matches against others. Therefore you must improve.

Apologies if this offends but I am of the view that if you are a poor player then you don't need more shots, you just need to get a bit better than rubbish. Especially if you want to be the winner of an event. Total mediocrity should not win prizes.

 

[drew83]

I would suggest anyone who cannot score 36 points off the current maximum handicap be that 28 for men, 36 for women would benefit from playing easier shorter courses like municipals.

Gary, I take personal offence to that. We are not the lepers of the golfing world that should be shoo'd away & hidden from the world.....


It is so much easier to learn and improve at golf playing this type of golf. Par 3 courses are great for tightening short games.

Playing courses that are too long and or hard when you are not ready just put too much strain on weak parts of your game.

I have played the local courses, without achieving the magic 36.....I play off 28.

I have increased over the last 3 months from around 12 points to 21 last Saturday. I have been back playing for about 16 months.

even on some of the shorter courses.

I don't enter medals at the moment;

a)no membership
b) they don't allow handicaps over 18 as far as I have seen so far.

I am going to be a loooooong time before I can even consider entering. The guys I play with vary from 14's ,18's low 20's to me at 28.

They don't want to be playing little pitch & putt courses & I wouldn't either. I need the tougher courses to give me the challenge to improve.

If I was still knocking around a smaller easier course, got to the 36 points a few times then went to a "big boy" course then I would see a drop in scores, and lose heart.

it's like driving (a car).

Learners have to start somewhere. they don't get a separate lane or road network to practice on. They learn all real roads with other real cars.

As I said earlier, I don't want to see an increase in handicaps as 28 is sufficient. It would be nice as I would have more chance in the family stableford days, but that's life.

 

[drew83]

My opinion, and I appreciate it is somewhat divisive and incendiary, is that more than 24 over par for a normal bloke who has played for a while is utterly rubbish as a sporting achievement. .

Define a while......

what 6 months? a year? 2 years?