Buggy Breakdown during Club Championship ?

[jacka1972]

Whilst playing the first round of our Club Champ one of my playing partners who uses a buggy experienced a breakdown on the 6th green. His buggy would not move and he rang the clubhouse to have someone come out and assist with the repair. The repair took around 35 minutes in which time we had to let the groups behind through. We were playing in 3 balls and myself and the other player had to seek shelter from the rain and wait while he had his buggy repaired. What should have been the ruling ? Should he have been penalised ?

 

[la_lucha]

Clubhouse should've brought a new buggy out allowing you to continue whilst they fixed that one.

 

[jacka1972]

Its a personally owned buggy so there still would have been an element of delay and don't think he would have been too keen to just discard his buggy and carry on.

 

[Colin L]

Does he have a medical condition that requires him to use a buggy? If not, I don't think a 35 minute delay to get it fixed is reasonable.
Being not "too keen" to discard his buggy doesn't on the face it seem enough to escape from an undue delay penalty. A bit more information?

 

[Fyldewhite]

Does he have a medical condition that requires him to use a buggy? If not, I don't think a 35 minute delay to get it fixed is reasonable.
Being not "too keen" to discard his buggy doesn't on the face it seem enough to escape from an undue delay penalty. A bit more information?

I thought this too. Also, as the whole group stopped I'd guess the whole group would be subject to any penalty? Even if it is a medical condition I'm not sure that in itself would be sufficient for the whole group to delay play.

 

[palindromicbob]

35 minutes isn't so much an undue delay it's almost more like a discontinuation of play.

A similar situation is covered in decision 6-8a/4. In which case if the committee accepts the reason there is no penalty to him or the group as long as play resumed as soon as the repair had taken place.

Medical cert has no real relevance unless required the conditions of competition or the committee fail to agree on the reason for discontinuation.

In short the decision on a penalty lies with the committee.

 

[Colin L]

Looking at questions like this about something I haven't come across before, I try to put myself on the course having to make a judgement. On that basis, at my club the buggy would be a necessity since we only allow their use in competitions if there is a medical certificate. I can think of one player who, through an old injury, just could not complete a round without a buggy.

The practical solution would be tell the other two in the group to continue play and make an arrangement when the player had his buggy restored for him to continue if there was enough time left. That could mean attaching him to a later group or somehow arranging him to have a marker.

If the buggy were just a convenience rather than a necessity, he should play on without it. If he holds up play by waiting for the breakdown truck, he is liable to a penalty not the others. Rule 6-7 refers to the player and clearly contemplates one person being responsible.

 

[Colin L]

Medical cert has no real relevance unless required the conditions of competition or the committee fail to agree on the reason for discontinuation.

The reason why I was suggesting considering the physical condition of the player (whether or not backed up by a certificate) was that I would view the justification for waiting for the buggy repair as being very different between a player who cannot complete the round without it, and a player who is using it as a convenience and who would have no problem in walking the rest of the round.

For example, a wheel came off my trolley 5 holes into a medal round. I wasn't happy about carrying my bag for the rest of the round but knew that I could. I don't think I had any justification for waiting for or going for another trolley even though towards the end of the round I was well knackered and the wheels came off my game.

So not disagreeing - it is indeed down to the committee - more looking at some of the factors that would go into a decision.

Plus the essential practical matter that if a committee member is on the spot and there is to be a substantial delay, he should do what is possible to let the other two get on with the game and not be affected.

 

[Fyldewhite]

If he holds up play by waiting for the breakdown truck, he is liable to a penalty not the others. Rule 6-7 refers to the player and clearly contemplates one person being responsible.

Hmmmm, so if I discontinue or delay play because me PP decides he needs a repair to his buggy that's fine? I'm not sure it is tbh. I think the rule may apply to each player individually and the reasons would then be considered separately (ie "my buggy's broke" for player 1 and "My PP is stopping to repair his buggy" for players 2 and 3). I don't think that's a good enough reason for me to stop if I was player 2 or 3 and suspect I would be penalised. That said, as Bob points out above it would be up to the committee but I'd be worried I'd be leaving myself open to a penalty should I stop for the reasons stated.

 

[Colin L]

Hmmmm, so if I discontinue or delay play because me PP decides he needs a repair to his buggy that's fine? .

I'm just going by my reading of 6-7 in suggesting that the player whose buggy has broken down is the one delaying play. The other two are having their play delayed without any influence on or involvement in creating the cause. They are not, to my mind, responsible. That's my view - not definitive - and it will be interesting to hear other views that could change it.

 

[jacka1972]

Yeah the guy has a medical certificate for his buggy, he uses it every week. He never plays without it, he hires one if there is any issues with his own.There was only one group behind us so we could only let one group through then wait. Obviously standing in the rain for 35 minutes is not ideal for the 2 players who are ready to play ?

 

[palindromicbob]

Yeah the guy has a medical certificate for his buggy, he uses it every week. He never plays without it, he hires one if there is any issues with his own.There was only one group behind us so we could only let one group through then wait. Obviously standing in the rain for 35 minutes is not ideal for the 2 players who are ready to play ?

Well that makes it more cut and dry. Definitely no penalty. Possibly could have been dealt with differently by the club if they'd offered a spare buggy otherwise little could be done bar your FC withdrawing from the comp.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I'm just going by my reading of 6-7 in suggesting that the player whose buggy has broken down is the one delaying play. The other two are having their play delayed without any influence on or involvement in creating the cause. They are not, to my mind, responsible. That's my view - not definitive - and it will be interesting to hear other views that could change it.

Understand your point Colin, and I wasn't saying you are wrong.....just the way I read it is different!! As you say, interested to hear any views on what the playing partners should do in these circumstances...... carry on or wait for the cavalry!

 

[Colin L]

Consider a more obvious situation. A player leaves his sand wedge beside a green side bunker on one hole, realises what he has done when he needs it in a bunker at the next green and goes all the way back to get it. He should be penalised for undue delay, but would you really accept it if you were one of the other players in the group and were told you too would be penalised?

 

[FairwayDodger]

Consider a more obvious situation. A player leaves his sand wedge beside a green side bunker on one hole, realises what he has done when he needs it in a bunker at the next green and goes all the way back to get it. He should be penalised for undue delay, but would you really accept it if you were one of the other players in the group and were told you too would be penalised?

Realising the consternation that may well follow this comment..... would anyone actually enforce a penalty for that in a club medal? I mean on the player going back for the wedge even. I'd let her go and let through any group that came up while she did it.

 

[jacka1972]

It doesn't take 35 minutes to retrieve a sand wedge from a green though ? We are talking Club Championship in torrential rain, 35 minutes waiting for your opponent to frig on with his buggy.

 

[palindromicbob]

I'm just going by my reading of 6-7 in suggesting that the player whose buggy has broken down is the one delaying play. The other two are having their play delayed without any influence on or involvement in creating the cause. They are not, to my mind, responsible. That's my view - not definitive - and it will be interesting to hear other views that could change it.

Consider a more obvious situation. A player leaves his sand wedge beside a green side bunker on one hole, realises what he has done when he needs it in a bunker at the next green and goes all the way back to get it. He should be penalised for undue delay, but would you really accept it if you were one of the other players in the group and were told you too would be penalised?

But now you are clouding the issue. The issue with the buggy breaking down falls under rule 6-8. It is a discontinuation of play due to the buggy breaking down and being unable to continue. A decision also exists which clarifies the situation 6-8a/4. The players actions did not cause the delay it is simply bad luck.

The player who leaves behind a club has done something which is avoidable. In returning for the club he is delaying his own play and is subject to the penalty. The fact this is also delaying the FC's play is not directly covered under the rules but should be considered under equity.

Is it fair for a player to be subject to a penalty due to the actions of a fellow competitor? The reasonable answer in my eyes would be no.

Some might say that the group should abandon Mr Forgetful and play on. Nothing wrong with them playing out of order in stroke play just to keep things moving but they can't abandon Mr Forgetful. If they do they fall foul of Rule 6-3b and are DQ'd.