Brexit Two Months On

[Old Skier]

The UK is in the EU not the individual countries of Scotland, N Ireland and Wales. In fact the majority of Welsh wanted out so I'm not sure allowing the federalist miniority to creat white noise while dealing with the negotiations is really that useful or helpful.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree! Though it's likely that some sort of notification, if not agreement, will happen during/following actual exit negotiation.
We don't need to know the intimate goings-on of the negotiations, just as we don't need to know the intimate goings-on of diplomatic discussions! If the government (or EU for that matter) happens to make announcements, then make sure you have a decent amount of salt available, as it's likely the announcement is 'strategic' rather than final agreements!

Blimey... What intimate details about the UK's negotiating stance and goings-on have we gleaned from knowing that Sturgeon et al are meeting with May today, and that they will be involved in a couple of forums with David Davis before the turn of the year. None. None at all.

And so what intimate details would be divulged if we were told that there is a cut-off date of (say) 28th Feb 2017 for input from the devolved governments?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Blimey... What intimate details about the UK's negotiating stance and goings-on have we gleaned from knowing that Sturgeon et al are meeting with May today, and that they will be involved in a couple of forums with David Davis before the turn of the year. None. None at all.

And so what intimate details would be divulged if we were told that there is a cut-off date of (say) 28th Feb 2017 for input from the devolved governments?

What difference would it make to you, me, or anybody if you knew? Absolutely diddly-squat. You seem to think that the Scottish MP's in Westminster can't represent Scotland enough? Why the need to focus so much on the devolved government. I don't remember that being part of the devolution, "input into UK wide decisions". I would almost argue that the devolved governments/assemblies shouldn't be involved in the negotiations, that's what the Westminster MP's are for. The Scottish/Welsh/NI devolved governments are overly focused on their own particular areas, and you could argue with Scotland, this includes being to the detriment of the rest of the UK.

 

[Foxholer]

Blimey... What intimate details about the UK's negotiating stance and goings-on have we gleaned from knowing that Sturgeon et al are meeting with May today, and that they will be involved in a couple of forums with David Davis before the turn of the year. None. None at all.

And so what intimate details would be divulged if we were told that there is a cut-off date of (say) 28th Feb 2017 for input from the devolved governments?

You've got it arse about face!

WE (at least most of us) don't need to know! And that's for several reasons! A) WE really have no influence over it! B) We trust/depend on the government getting the best deal possible! C) Depending on how/why they voted, some/many won't care on what deal is made! It's the leaving that counts!

If devolved governments are given a deadline for input (though what that 'input' would be I'm unsure), then they should accept that deadline! What the 'intimate details' that may/may not be divulged would be, I haven't a clue!

Why can't you just accept that May is the ideal type of PM to actually run this - would have voted to Remain, but is determined to implement the Exit result with the best possible deal for UK! Her strategy so far - including the appointments she has made (and has not made!) to the Brexit department(s) seem to be pretty good to me! And I was a definite 'anti-May' when she was Home Secretary!

 

[MegaSteve]

Out of interest are we also expecting the EU commissioners to keep us fully posted as to their intentions with regard the Brexit negotiations?

After all, we are still contributing and we played a part in electing the EU Parliament...

 

[Foxholer]

Out of interest are we also expecting the EU commissioners to keep us fully posted as to their intentions with regard the Brexit negotiations?

After all, we are still contributing and we played a part in electing the EU Parliament...

Oh, I'm sure that the (non-UK) ones will be giving their opinions! But, as I posted earlier, much of that, like the opinions already expressed by 'the other side' will simply be posturing! And once the negotiations actually start, there'll be plenty more - even just for 'domestic consumption' - by both sides!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What difference would it make to you, me, or anybody if you knew? Absolutely diddly-squat. You seem to think that the Scottish MP's in Westminster can't represent Scotland enough? Why the need to focus so much on the devolved government. I don't remember that being part of the devolution, "input into UK wide decisions". I would almost argue that the devolved governments/assemblies shouldn't be involved in the negotiations, that's what the Westminster MP's are for. The Scottish/Welsh/NI devolved governments are overly focused on their own particular areas, and you could argue with Scotland, this includes being to the detriment of the rest of the UK.

Very simply in that it clarifies things at no risk to revealing the actual detail of a starting point for negotiations. And as a result of the clarification I know when it becomes pointless lobbying my MP; and if the Scottish government are saying late-Jan that no agreement on the basics have been reached that there is diddly-squat time for agreement to be reached - and if I am worried about a IndyRef2 I can raise my concerns.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Out of interest are we also expecting the EU commissioners to keep us fully posted as to their intentions with regard the Brexit negotiations?

After all, we are still contributing and we played a part in electing the EU Parliament...

No - and I am not asking them. They have already said what their plans are in respect of negotiations with the UK pre-Act50 - these plans are that hey are doing precisely nothing. They have announced their chief negotiator and their wish to have negotiations in French - nothing much else they can do until we state what we want.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You've got it arse about face!

WE (at least most of us) don't need to know! And that's for several reasons! A) WE really have no influence over it! B) We trust/depend on the government getting the best deal possible! C) Depending on how/why they voted, some/many won't care on what deal is made! It's the leaving that counts!

If devolved governments are given a deadline for input (though what that 'input' would be I'm unsure), then they should accept that deadline! What the 'intimate details' that may/may not be divulged would be, I haven't a clue!

Why can't you just accept that May is the ideal type of PM to actually run this - would have voted to Remain, but is determined to implement the Exit result with the best possible deal for UK! Her strategy so far - including the appointments she has made (and has not made!) to the Brexit department(s) seem to be pretty good to me! And I was a definite 'anti-May' when she was Home Secretary!

I accept most of the above - but none of it actually prevents, or is in conflict with, the government giving us the timeline to Act50 at end March.

And to what end? All that this does is that it says to the Scottish voters "you don't need to know" - and that is precisely the sort of statement that winds up many north of the border and reinforces their perception of how Scotland is perceived by Westminster.

 

[Paperboy]

I accept most of the above - but none of it actually prevents, or is in conflict with, the government giving us the timeline to Act50 at end March.

And to what end? All that this does is that it says to the Scottish voters "you don't need to know" - and that is precisely the sort of statement that winds up many north of the border and reinforces their perception of how Scotland is perceived by Westminster.

Are the Welsh and Irish moaning?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Are the Welsh and Irish moaning?

The Irish are not too happy. For the first time I can now see, a fair bit down the line, a united Ireland being a possibility.
The Welsh are just a Principality of England.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Are the Welsh and Irish moaning?

I suspect so. The NI folks are very concerned about our stance in respect of the NI/Eire border. I have read that the Eire government is very concerned about the impact on their economy if the UK is not in the single market. As far as the Welsh are concerned - they are fortunate to not have the risk of independence hanging over it.

 

[Old Skier]

The Irish are not too happy. For the first time I can now see, a fair bit down the line, a united Ireland being a possibility.
The Welsh are just a Principality of England.

Who would have known leaving the EU would result in the end of sectarianism in NI. If only the UK had know, they never would have joined the common market in the first place.

 

[Old Skier]

I suspect so. The NI folks are very concerned about our stance in respect of the NI/Eire border. I have read that the Eire government is very concerned about the impact on their economy if the UK is not in the single market. As far as the Welsh are concerned - they are fortunate to not have the risk of independence hanging over it.

There are no concerns over the border as it was shown to work prior to our entry to the common market and the majority of the Welsh wanted out so were are you getting your info from or are you just recirculating DfT,s prejudice views again.

 

[jp5]

There are no concerns over the border as it was shown to work prior to our entry to the common market

So what happens when one half is in the common market and one isn't?

 

[IanM]

So...special terms re both sides of the Irish Border can be worked out.

The EU will object of course but they won't be around by the end of the decade....As long as the Tories do actually take the uk out of the EU.

Either way, I t's about to kick off in Germany.... That'll kill off Federalism more quickly than our referendum

 

[Old Skier]

So what happens when one half is in the common market and one isn't?

Unfortunatly, the common market along with its vote, went a long time ago.

 

[vkurup]

Good to hear that the Banks are making plans to leave/relocate..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37743700

... Some might say, that is not a problem.. after all what have the Banks done for us? Other than employing a couple of million people directly or indirectly, paying handsome bonus which is then trickled down in various forms, push up house prices, bloat up pension pots via the stock market, pay taxes that fill the coffers and is UK biggest export. ... nah, nothing important here.

 

[IanM]

And of course several retractions of this were issued this morning.

It's all cobblers

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So...special terms re both sides of the Irish Border can be worked out.

The EU will object of course but they won't be around by the end of the decade....As long as the Tories do actually take the uk out of the EU.

Either way, I t's about to kick off in Germany.... That'll kill off Federalism more quickly than our referendum

Are you suggesting that they 'work it out' for Ireland but not Scotland