Brexit Two Months On

[ColchesterFC]

Seems so - as the Scottish, NI and Welsh Sec of State aren't part of May's Brexit core team. England it is then.

What about, as you've pointed out on the Indyref2 thread, Scotland being part of Club UK? It's Club UK (your words) negotiating Brexit not England, Wales, Scotland etc. You can't have it both ways just to suit your argument.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What about, as you've pointed out on the Indyref2 thread, Scotland being part of Club UK? It's Club UK (your words) negotiating Brexit not England, Wales, Scotland etc. You can't have it both ways just to suit your argument.

If you are a member of a club you have representation on the decision making bodies. Scotland, NI and Wales do not have representation - they will be invited when they are required. That is not the 'equal partnership' that BT and the Gov promised Scotland in IndyRef1. They are playing into the hands of the SNP.

 

[ColchesterFC]

East Anglia has that same population as Scotland. Should they have representation on the decision making bodies? And the same goes for plenty of other regions of the UK. Just how big do you want this decision making body to be?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

East Anglia has that same population as Scotland. Should they have representation on the decision making bodies? And the same goes for plenty of other regions of the UK. Just how big do you want this decision making body to be?

Isn't East Anglia part of the English region.

I see the City of London is once again asking to join Scotland in a Brexit free zone.

 

[hors limite]

I am really struggling to understand where we are supposed to be heading with the Brexit project. The impact on immigration when you've counted in all the exceptions that are being talked about is looking to be modest. Conversely, the adverse economic impact seems to be frighteningly difficult to quantify.
The fall in the pound might have been good for exporters if we had the manufacturing base of a Germany. As we haven't it isn't as it will drive up the cost of imports leading to inflation and an erosion of real incomes which will impact the poorest. I read that one of the biggest and most successful industries is the financial sector and the impact of Brexit in this area seems only to threaten a negative impact. Returning to the exports of goods, we have done very well in attracting inward investment from especially the Japanese. The Japanese government has already warned of their concerns and Nissan has halted further investment.
I have heard the argument that the EU will not want to apply tariffs to Uk goods as they will fear a similar treatment of their exports. I hope that the Brexit camp is right. However, the downside to the UK economy appears to huge compared to the upside of a smallish reduction in immigration and that nebulous recapturing of"sovereignty".
I would like to see a series of opinion polls between now and the Article 50 deadline. There were false fears and arguments peddled by both sides leading up to the vote.It would be foolish, whether through a misplaced sense of pride or through a narrow political self interest, to rule out any possibility of revisiting the question if it emerged that there had been a substantial change of heart.

The responses that my above post has received from Brexiteers are woefully unconvincing. They seem to be built on wishful thinking." The pound will eventually stabilise". "Car manufacturers will be compensated if tariff barriers are applied"
When the wishful thinking stops, the assertions of confidence that the UK will emerge a better and more prosperous place take over. No justification, of course.
It makes me think of the bloke in the pub who has ordered a new car and bores his mates to death with stories of superlative performance, economy, handling, beauty and prestige. After taking delivery, he realises that all these claims were horribly exaggerated. As for telling his mates, it takes a particular humility to admit that you've been sold a pup.

 

[Val]

Isn't East Anglia part of the English region.

I see the City of London is once again asking to join Scotland in a Brexit free zone.

Is it? Where?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

If you are a member of a club you have representation on the decision making bodies. Scotland, NI and Wales do not have representation - they will be invited when they are required. That is not the 'equal partnership' that BT and the Gov promised Scotland in IndyRef1. They are playing into the hands of the SNP.

As I pointed out in my previous post, Devolved Administration officials are currently actively engaged in Brexit discussions with counterparts in Whitehall Departments, so in effect those Governments are being represented and there is an 'equal partnership' in operation.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Isn't East Anglia part of the English region.

Yes it is. But East Anglia has paid to be a member of the club but doesn't have a representative on the decision making body.

Isn't Scotland part of the UK. And unless I'm mistaken it's the UK that will be negotiating to leave the EU. Why should Scotland get anything more than any other region with a similar population?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Yes it is. But East Anglia has paid to be a member of the club but doesn't have a representative on the decision making body.

Isn't Scotland part of the UK. And unless I'm mistaken it's the UK that will be negotiating to leave the EU. Why should Scotland get anything more than any other region with a similar population?

Scotland is a country with it's own Government, so along with Wales and Northern Ireland, as part of the UK, will have a voice in the Brexit negotiations. However, in line with the devolved settlements, it is the Westminster Government that physically represents the UK in EU and international negotiations. It should also be noted that whenever Government officials attend EU meetings, they do so along agreed 'UK' lines.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The responses that my above post has received from Brexiteers are woefully unconvincing. They seem to be built on wishful thinking." The pound will eventually stabilise". "Car manufacturers will be compensated if tariff barriers are applied"
When the wishful thinking stops, the assertions of confidence that the UK will emerge a better and more prosperous place take over. No justification, of course.
It makes me think of the bloke in the pub who has ordered a new car and bores his mates to death with stories of superlative performance, economy, handling, beauty and prestige. After taking delivery, he realises that all these claims were horribly exaggerated. As for telling his mates, it takes a particular humility to admit that you've been sold a pup.

Is it not just as hard for Remoaners to admit that we were "sold a pup" in 1973?

 

[USER1999]

Scotland is a country with it's own Government, so along with Wales and Northern Ireland, as part of the UK, will have a voice in the Brexit negotiations. However, in line with the devolved settlements, it is the Westminster Government that physically represents the UK in EU and international negotiations. It should also be noted that whenever Government officials attend EU meetings, they do so along agreed 'UK' lines.

No one is listening to you, as we would all prefer to make up some sensational nonsense, rather than actually understand how it works for real!

 

[Deleted member 1418]

No one is listening to you, as we would all prefer to make up some sensational nonsense, rather than actually understand how it works for real!

:rofl: :thup: Yes I sometimes wonder whether all those meetings and conference calls I've been involved in since end June with officials from a number of Government departments, Devolved Administrations, and stakeholder representatives have not actually taken place; and we all have no idea what we're doing!!

Think I'll leave this thread alone now!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

:rofl: :thup: Yes I sometimes wonder whether all those meetings and conference calls I've been involved in since end June with officials from a number of Government departments, Devolved Administrations, and stakeholder representatives have not actually taken place; and we all have no idea what we're doing!!

Think I'll leave this thread alone now!!

If we don't know that they are happening - then the perception is that very little is happening. That is why the government should give a plan for what is going to happen between now and end March. There will be one - there MUST be one. This plan gives nothing about the detail of the government objectives - other than it will have a Milestone called 'Brexit Objectives Signed off by PM', it will have nothing in it about the negotiation starting point, and where something can be given to the EU. But it will have a milestone called 'Grand Repeal Bill Passed'; another called 'Article 50 Invoked' and another 'Draft Plan for Agreement of Trading Relations with the rEU Signed-off'

It is simply a top level plan defining who is doing what between now and end March - and it will show is all where the devolved governments/assembles are involved - at detailed level discussions and at senior ministerial level.

Have we seen that? There need be nothing secret about it as we know where we are and we know where we have to get to by 31st March - and we know pretty much what has to be done. Let's just see it set out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If we don't know that they are happening - then the perception is that very little is happening. That is why the government should give a plan for what is going to happen between now and end March. There will be one - there MUST be one. This plan gives nothing about the detail of the government objectives - other than it will have a Milestone called 'Brexit Objectives Signed off by PM', it will have nothing in it about the negotiation starting point, and where something can be given to the EU. But it will have a milestone called 'Grand Repeal Bill Passed'; another called 'Article 50 Invoked' and another 'Draft Plan for Agreement of Trading Relations with the rEU Signed-off'

It is simply a top level plan defining who is doing what between now and end March - and it will show is all where the devolved governments/assembles are involved - at detailed level discussions and at senior ministerial level.

Have we seen that? There need be nothing secret about it as we know where we are and we know where we have to get to by 31st March - and we know pretty much what has to be done. Let's just see it set out.

Why do you need to know every single little thing that is happening ?

How about you just wait and see what happens when they get everything sorted - you can't change anything regardless of what has been said and acting like a headless chicken because you haven't been told what is happening achieves nothing.

People aren't sitting around doing nothing they are getting on with - so instead of demanding to be told everything let them get on with

You have been told that people are preparing for the exit from the EU and are currently seeing what deals can be done - why do you need to know anything more ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why do you need to know every single little thing that is happening ?

How about you just wait and see what happens when they get everything sorted - you can't change anything regardless of what has been said and acting like a headless chicken because you haven't been told what is happening achieves nothing.

People aren't sitting around doing nothing they are getting on with - so instead of demanding to be told everything let them get on with

You have been told that people are preparing for the exit from the EU and are currently seeing what deals can be done - why do you need to know anything more ?

I don't need to know everything at all - far from it. But surely it would be good if we saw a top-level plan and who is involved at each step between now and 31st March, as this would make clear where the devolved administrations are involved and so silence complaints from the SNP that Scotland is not being fully consulted.

 

[USER1999]

The SNP know they are represented, they are just making political milage out of pretending to not be involved.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The SNP know they are represented, they are just making political milage out of pretending to not be involved.

Can you name a few of the folk from the SNP who are involved, it may surprise them!

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Can you name a few of the folk from the SNP who are involved, it may surprise them!

God, I hope that the SNP aren't involved, just as I would prefer it if no politicians from anywhere else were involved. If only we could leave this up to experts (even if we hate them), rather than people who can benefit from short term political points scoring (applicable to both Scottish and English and Welsh and NI politicians)

 

[ColchesterFC]

:rofl: :thup: Yes I sometimes wonder whether all those meetings and conference calls I've been involved in since end June with officials from a number of Government departments, Devolved Administrations, and stakeholder representatives have not actually taken place; and we all have no idea what we're doing!!

Think I'll leave this thread alone now!!

Can you name a few of the folk from the SNP who are involved, it may surprise them!

Did you bother to read the post by PieMan about meetings with Devolved Administrations? I think I'd rather believe his first hand knowledge of the situation than your guesswork from a position of ignorance.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Can you name a few of the folk from the SNP who are involved, it may surprise them!

When I speak to my counterpart in the Scottish Government and they say to me "the steer we have had from our Minister is......" then I naturally assume that is an elected Scottish Government Minister. Unless I'm hugely mistaken, that's an SNP MSP? Of course they may be telling me a few porkies and they don't brief or consult their Ministers and just make it up as they go along!!!