Brexit Two Months On

[FairwayDodger]

Just because, "someone said," doesn't make it evidenced based. It's anecdotal. My experience with my European colleagues who I speak with almost every day certainly doesn't suggest they are laughing at us. They are very worried economically for themselves, and very much want the politicians to get their act together and end the uncertainty.

Also, I'm just back from 3 weeks in Europe. Lots of travelling well away from the tourist areas, and as we like to go where the locals go we like to talk to the locals. There were questions about Brexit but the feeling from the locals was more of a "what have we done wrong for you to want to leave ?"

Indeed, it is more nuanced than can easily be expressed. All of these responses are happening, often from the same people at different times or different situations.

 

[Foxholer]

Also, I'm just back from 3 weeks in Europe. Lots of travelling well away from the tourist areas, and as we like to go where the locals go we like to talk to the locals. There were questions about Brexit but the feeling from the locals was more of a "what have we done wrong for you to want to leave ?"

I hope you assured them that it wasn't 'them' that had done things wrong! Merely a reaction to the over-federalistic policies of those running the EU! Oh and a wish, from the likely 'end destination' to control/manage immigration!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so our foreign secretary takes a compromising stance in his initial pronouncements on Brexit negotiations, telling us that ... it is “absolute baloney” to suggest that Britain will be unable to retain access to the European single market unless it keeps free movement rules allowing all EU citizens to live and work in the UK.

Not leaving yourself much wriggle room with that sort of statement.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

And so our foreign secretary takes a compromising stance in his initial pronouncements on Brexit negotiations, telling us that ... it is “absolute baloney” to suggest that Britain will be unable to retain access to the European single market unless it keeps free movement rules allowing all EU citizens to live and work in the UK.

Not leaving yourself much wriggle room with that sort of statement.

The PM soon slapped him back in his box though.

I think it was a stroke of genius to put Fox, Boris and the other Brexit guy in charge of foreign policy/business.
I wonder how long it will take for them to find a reason to resign [or join UKIP:lol:]

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Theresa May fires the starting gun on Brexit and shoots herself in the foot.

She wouldn't tell us what she was going to do during Brexit negotiations but has now dealt her cards face up by saying that the UK will take on board all EU law.

More than two years before of this will happen the EU knows the end game, can now sit back, do nothing and wait for the UK to come to it seeking negotiations on specific areas.

Brilliant.

Also suggests that May is leaning towards the 'total control over immigration no matter what' right wing section of the Tory Party - almost regardless the impact that would have on business through tariffs and workforce issues - the very business that bank-rolls her party.

Let us not forget that the Leave campaign promised a UK-EU free trade deal with continued access to the single market.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Didn't she actually say that we would take all EU laws and then decide later which ones we keep and which ones we repeal? And as she is going to remove the European Communities Act 1972 we then get to decide which laws apply.

"The repeal of the 1972 Act will not take effect until the UK leaves the EU under Article 50. It will be contained in a "Great Repeal Bill", promised in the next Queen's Speech, which will also enshrine all existing EU law into British law.The repeal bill will enable Parliament to amend and cancel any unwanted legislation and also end the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK."

So yes all current EU laws, that we already follow anyway, will be enshrined into law and we can then decide afterwards which bits we want to keep or get rid of. But I guess that reporting the truth would mean that you couldn't turn it into a negative against the Tory government or Brexit.

 

[Foxholer]

Theresa May fires the starting gun on Brexit and shoots herself in the foot.

She wouldn't tell us what she was going to do during Brexit negotiations but has now dealt her cards face up by saying that the UK will take on board all EU law.

More than two years before of this will happen the EU knows the end game, can now sit back, do nothing and wait for the UK to come to it seeking negotiations on specific areas.

Brilliant.
...

This is an entirely reasonable strategy! In fact, the ONLY reasonable one!

Anything else would either create a huge vacuum of laws/regs or would create an impossible workload of laws to create/pass!

The obvious strategy is to create/pass replacement laws with a 'subject to' clause that depends on the one biggy that repeals the European Community Act. Part of the role of the taskforce/new Department is to identify those new laws that will be required - or those that will need to be amended - and set them up for passing through the standard law-making process. It's really quite a simple - if enormous - task!

Oh. And the Leave campaign didn't actually 'promise' any UK-EU trade deal/continued access - or not as far as I remember! It certainly offered paths of how that could be achieved - understandably without mentioning the costs/difficulties!

 

[Hobbit]

Theresa May fires the starting gun on Brexit and shoots herself in the foot.

She wouldn't tell us what she was going to do during Brexit negotiations but has now dealt her cards face up by saying that the UK will take on board all EU law.

More than two years before of this will happen the EU knows the end game, can now sit back, do nothing and wait for the UK to come to it seeking negotiations on specific areas.

Brilliant.

Also suggests that May is leaning towards the 'total control over immigration no matter what' right wing section of the Tory Party - almost regardless the impact that would have on business through tariffs and workforce issues - the very business that bank-rolls her party.

Let us not forget that the Leave campaign promised a UK-EU free trade deal with continued access to the single market.

Unbelieveable!

You've complained bitterly for months about a lack of a plan, and then you complain that when you're told the plan the PM has laid her cards face up.

And to to cap it all you clearly haven't understood what the intention is with the EU laws, see Foxy's post.

You couldn't write a better Monty Python-esqe script.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Unbelieveable!

You've complained bitterly for months about a lack of a plan, and then you complain that when you're told the plan the PM has laid her cards face up.

And to to cap it all you clearly haven't understood what the intention is with the EU laws, see Foxy's post.

You couldn't write a better Monty Python-esqe script.

You are quite right - I can't believe that anyone would be gullible enough to believe her waffle. She hasn't a clue - what to do. So let's just have her say something to make her sound decisive.

What's the plan again? We'll invoke Article 50 by end March 2017. Hmmm - I suppose that is a bit of a plan - is it a promise or an aspiration? If she told us what is to happen between now and then - then that would make a plan. And if it is a plan there must be objectives stated - what are these objectives - anyone know? Exiting the EU isn't really an objective - it's a constraint. Because we must exit the EU (whatever that means) - no ifs - no buts. But in exiting the EU we need some objectives and some measures to know whether or not we have met the objectives. At the moment all business and the rest of us knows is that we are leaving the EU - but we don't know what we are going to have with us when we do.

A bit like someone telling me that I am going to have to jump out of a plane next week. I know I need something to stop me crashing into the ground too quickly (would be very sore and probably fatal) but I don't know what will do that. It will most likely be a parachute but I don't yet know what sort I need; how I am going to get one; how much it will cost; will I have the money to buy it; where will I get it from. But come what may - I am going to have to jump. I'd be crapping myself.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

May wasn't part of the Leave campaign and is certainly not tied to any promises that they made. They promised all sorts but none of those promises mean anything.

 

[Foxholer]

You are quite right - I can't believe that anyone would be gullible enough to believe her waffle. She hasn't a clue - what to do. So let's just have her say something to make her sound decisive.

What's the plan again? We'll invoke Article 50 by end March 2017. Hmmm - I suppose that is a bit of a plan - is it a promise or an aspiration? If she told us what is to happen between now and then - then that would make a plan. And if it is a plan there must be objectives stated - what are these objectives - anyone know? Exiting the EU isn't really an objective - it's a constraint. Because we must exit the EU (whatever that means) - no ifs - no buts. But in exiting the EU we need some objectives and some measures to know whether or not we have met the objectives. At the moment all business and the rest of us knows is that we are leaving the EU - but we don't know what we are going to have with us when we do.

A bit like someone telling me that I am going to have to jump out of a plane next week. I know I need something to stop me crashing into the ground too quickly (would be very sore and probably fatal) but I don't know what will do that. It will most likely be a parachute but I don't yet know what sort I need; how I am going to get one; how much it will cost; will I have the money to buy it; where will I get it from. But come what may - I am going to have to jump. I'd be crapping myself.

Eh! what?! As hobbit noted...Unbelievable!

Are you blind & deaf?

Or do you simply refuse to see & hear?

 

[Hobbit]

Eh! what?! As hobbit noted...Unbelievable!

Are you blind & deaf?

Or do you simply refuse to see & hear?

Too many pints of bitter(ness) methinks??

 

[SocketRocket]

Theresa May fires the starting gun on Brexit and shoots herself in the foot.

She wouldn't tell us what she was going to do during Brexit negotiations but has now dealt her cards face up by saying that the UK will take on board all EU law.

More than two years before of this will happen the EU knows the end game, can now sit back, do nothing and wait for the UK to come to it seeking negotiations on specific areas.

Brilliant.

Also suggests that May is leaning towards the 'total control over immigration no matter what' right wing section of the Tory Party - almost regardless the impact that would have on business through tariffs and workforce issues - the very business that bank-rolls her party.

Let us not forget that the Leave campaign promised a UK-EU free trade deal with continued access to the single market.

Does your brain only have an output control? Try fiddling with it and you may come across a button that says 'Input' If you switch it on you will experience a new sensation whereby other ideas feed in allowing you to consider other inputs that offer you the opportunity to question your previous binary view.

 

[FairwayDodger]

In fairness, SILH, we had a vote and decided to throw you out of the plane. Sorry you don't like it but we will come up with something to reduce the impact on you. Oh not sure exactly when we're chucking you out but will be before March probably.

We've got a committee of forummers working on your parachute or giant airbag of something. We did have some physics professors and engineers looking at it be decided it was best to avoid experts on this.

Pretty sure you'll thrive after getting thrown out the plane. You will be a shining example to the world of good bouncing, or floating, or landing softly or something. Maybe.

Anyway, stop your whining, you've nothing to worry about.

 

[SocketRocket]

In fairness, SILH, we had a vote and decided to throw you out of the plane. Sorry you don't like it but we will come up with something to reduce the impact on you. Oh not sure exactly when we're chucking you out but will be before March probably.

We've got a committee of forummers working on your parachute or giant airbag of something. We did have some physics professors and engineers looking at it be decided it was best to avoid experts on this.

Pretty sure you'll thrive after getting thrown out the plane. You will be a shining example to the world of good bouncing, or floating, or landing softly or something. Maybe.

Anyway, stop your whining, you've nothing to worry about.

He's not getting thrown out of the plane, he just has to change flights and get on a different one. As the flight is two years away the airline cant be absolutely specific on the actual plane but they are pretty sure it will be one with wings and an engine, seats and have a pilot flying it. Some of the passengers want to know the Pilots name and address in advance, they also want to know the colour of the plane and what the weather will be like on the day. The Airline have said that it's impossible to give out these details until a week before the flight.

Happy Landings.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

He's not getting thrown out of the plane, he just has to change flights and get on a different one. As the flight is two years away the airline cant be absolutely specific on the actual plane but they are pretty sure it will be one with wings and an engine, seats and have a pilot flying it. Some of the passengers want to know the Pilots name and address in advance, they also want to know the colour of the plane and what the weather will be like on the day. The Airline have said that it's impossible to give out these details until a week before the flight.

Happy Landings.

Eurgh.

As much as i'm really anti-Brexit, this is actually quite a good analogy for me.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Eurgh.

As much as i'm really anti-Brexit, this is actually quite a good analogy for me.

Except we know that both aircraft will be mid-flight, and that our passenger's current aircraft is not going to land and stop to enable one passenger to change aircraft. So the passenger has somehow to get from one aircraft to another - mid-flight. Besides - I'm not sure our passenger will be happy to book a flight on an aircraft that is not guaranteed to have wings. I suppose it could be a balloon - floats about the place rather slowly and direction and speed rather subject to the vagaries of the weather - and we cannot control the weather.

In truth I am pretty fed up of this 'it'll be alright on the night - just stop whinging you Remoaners' as we head for a 'full cut hard exit' from the EU and the Single Market - which is what May seems to have gone for (despite her and her chancellor being Remainers - which might have make you think she'd go 'soft option') - and so I think I'll just do a gradual conscious uncoupling from this whole debate.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Except we know that both aircraft will be mid-flight, and that our passenger's current aircraft is not going to land and stop to enable one passenger to change aircraft. So the passenger has somehow to get from one aircraft to another - mid-flight. Besides - I'm not sure our passenger will be happy to book a flight on an aircraft that is not guaranteed to have wings. I suppose it could be a balloon - floats about the place rather slowly and direction and speed rather subject to the vagaries of the weather - and we cannot control the weather.

In truth I am pretty fed up of this 'it'll be alright on the night - just stop whinging you Remoaners' as we head for a 'full cut hard exit' from the EU and the Single Market - which is what May seems to have gone for (despite her and her chancellor being Remainers - which might have make you think she'd go 'soft option') - and so I think I'll just do a gradual conscious uncoupling from this whole debate.

You really are nothing more than a mirror image of "Daily Mail Man".

Never mind the detail or the facts just find a headline that you can use to trumpet your pre-conceived anti-Conservative Party views.

You cannot uncouple from a debate you were never part of as to be involved you do, at least, have to listen and acknowledge opinions other than your own. Anything less is, I am afraid, nothing other than prejudice.

And I speak as one who was active in the Remain camp.

 

[jp5]

May wasn't part of the Leave campaign and is certainly not tied to any promises that they made. They promised all sorts but none of those promises mean anything.

May decided to run for leadership in wake of the Leave vote, so people will expect her to fulfil the Leave campaign promises.

Especially as all the key ministers in the Department for Brexit were prominent in the Leave campaign.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

They weren't her promises. Feel free to dig out the clip which shows her making those statements. Her job as leader is to enforce the exit from Europe but not to make good the range of ludicrous promises made by other people during the campaign. The referendum was a yes/no to the EU, not a general election. There is no mandate nor pressue in my eyes for her to make good on anything other than leaving the EU. Now if Boris was leader that would be a different matter but he is not, she is.