Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Deleted member 15344]

This for me shows what a deplorable man he is and also how indirectly he had a hand in people losing lives at Grenfell

 

[drdel]

This for me shows what a deplorable man he is and also how indirectly he had a hand in people losing lives at Grenfell

Really stretching logic: I guess he's also to blame for the South Africa win today.

 

[harpo_72]

You seriously have to have an inward look at yourself if you think Boris is the man.
We have 2 parties led by men who are unelectable. Do you really think any of the manifesto offered by either will be followed? I think Corbyn will at least try, Boris is just going to lie as we have no evidence of Him telling the truth.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I voted to leave the EU so there's plenty of bias here; but I prefer playing the ball towards the goal rather than going off on tangents and personalities.

I voted Leave and would of loved nothing more than boris to come up with a deal that got us out.
But on your second point, I totally agree, but I’m yet to see anyone on this forum use that argument or make that point when Diane Abbot’s accounting ability has been dragged in to it or Corbyn supporting terrorists etc.
When I’ve done it (purposely) a few have happily and readily called me out.
Why the lazy journalistic, play the ball towards the goal etc comments have only appeared since boris and lies have been posted and not before I find puzzling.
(Not all points are aimed at you directly)

 

[Hitdaball]

Really stretching logic: I guess he's also to blame for the South Africa win today.

By that analogy Boris would had to have cut the England team to 10men, then said 10 men can be better than 15 if they play more efficiently and then told Eddie Jones to get stuffed when he pointed out he didn’t have a clue what he was talking about and that is why we lost.

You are backing the wrong horse.

 

[MegaSteve]

I have met and worked with the guy but Ok, I'll bite....

To lie means there was a deliberate intention to deceive.

It is clear the PM had the intention to leave when he set his deadline of the 31st: the Cabinet worked towards that date - there was no deception. Prior to 31st he achieved a 'deal' which gained HoC support; so there is no evidence of an 'intention' to deceive because he had a no-deal plan. His actions were delayed by the HoC. Thus, on this matter, there no substance to the didactic claims he lied.

While it is correct he lied while a newspaper editor - most 'editors/pundits do! Similarly it is not hard to find evidence of lies on every PM (and a host of other national and local politicians) before him. I can't believe that most sane people go around listening to and slavishly take literally what they hear and read about politicians in the media.

I character assassination is a common lazy journalistic trait but it is pretty pointless!

I believe many of his constituents feel he has lied to them with regard his intentions of representing their opposition to the third runway and HS2...

 

[drdel]

You seriously have to have an inward look at yourself if you think Boris is the man.
We have 2 parties led by men who are unelectable. Do you really think any of the manifesto offered by either will be followed? I think Corbyn will at least try, Boris is just going to lie as we have no evidence of Him telling the truth.

My election choice does not have BJ, JC or JS on the ballot paper so I guess, like several million others, I'll will have to support who i think will be good for my area. My personal opinion of any of them is just noise and will not count for much in a national election.

 

[harpo_72]

My election choice does not have BJ, JC or JS on the ballot paper so I guess, like several million others, I'll will have to support who i think will be good for my area. My personal opinion of any of them is just noise and will not count for much in a national election.

Personally I don’t care about the area, simply because these people your voting for have no impact. Councils only have impact if they have or are the elected party.
The manifesto is irrelevant until Brexit is cleared up.

 

[SocketRocket]

Far be it from little old me to disabuse you of your very lovely little pet theory, but if what you say is the truth, then why on earth did he keep saying it, even when it became blindly obvious, to anyone but the most vociferous Katie Hopkins supporter, that it wasn’t ever going to happen?

I explained that earlier, he was calling the EUs bluff, if they really believed we would leave with no deal then they would blink first, which they did. He was then hamstrung with the Benn act which he had to try and bluff through, the result was the EU opening the WA which they previously said was closed and not up for further negotiation. Its a waste of time explaining this though because all you and some others want to say is 'Boris told lies' keep saying it if its comforting for you but it is lazy.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I explained that earlier, he was calling the EUs bluff, if they really believed we would leave with no deal then they would blink first, which they did. He was then hamstrung with the Benn act which he had to try and bluff through, the result was the EU opening the WA which they previously said was closed and not up for further negotiation. Its a waste of time explaining this though because all you and some others want to say is 'Boris told lies' keep saying it if its comforting for you but it is lazy.

No, No, No, that’s all theory, you have no more proof of that being his motive than we have saying it wasn’t.
His whole mantra from day 1 got politicians on all sides worried.
Serious question......Why should politicians have such blind faith in him, if he’d of failed we’d be out now with No Deal, what if that wasn’t what the majority wanted?
Oh sorry guys, I was bluffing, but on the bright side, some people are happy.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I explained that earlier, he was calling the EUs bluff, if they really believed we would leave with no deal then they would blink first, which they did. He was then hamstrung with the Benn act which he had to try and bluff through, the result was the EU opening the WA which they previously said was closed and not up for further negotiation. Its a waste of time explaining this though because all you and some others want to say is 'Boris told lies' keep saying it if its comforting for you but it is lazy.

Yeah the bluff worked really well

We ended up with a deal that was worse than what May already negotiated - well played Boris - you managed to make things worse and extend it even further.

Regardless of what he said no deal was never really on the table

The EU have played a blinder - made us look even more stupid and we will leave the EU worse off than being in it

 

[SocketRocket]

Yeah the bluff worked really well

We ended up with a deal that was worse than what May already negotiated - well played Boris - you managed to make things worse and extend it even further.

Regardless of what he said no deal was never really on the table

The EU have played a blinder - made us look even more stupid and we will leave the EU worse off than being in it

Please explain what is worse about it, I'm interested in the detail of that.
Also how did he extend it further. You cast a lot of aspersions without any meat on the bone of your allegations.

You may feel stupid but dont talk for everyone, I'm quite pleased we have managed to improve on Mays deal. Anyhow, I wait for you to detail and justify your comments.

 

[Hobbit]

Yeah the bluff worked really well

We ended up with a deal that was worse than what May already negotiated - well played Boris - you managed to make things worse and extend it even further.

Regardless of what he said no deal was never really on the table

The EU have played a blinder - made us look even more stupid and we will leave the EU worse off than being in it

Is the deal worse? What parts of the deal are worse?

Have a look at what the end destination is for customs checks down the Irish Sea, and what customs check are made on trade with an end destination of NI. They're two different things.

Have a look at May's deal in relation to free trade deals, and have a look at Johnson's deal in relation to free trade deals.

Johnson's deal isn't all things wonderful but in terms of trade deals it is infinitely better by some wide margin. As for the customs checks, go have a read.. NI hasn't been sold down the river in terms of trade between mainland UK and NI.... but carry on believing the propaganda if it suits.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Please explain what is worse about it, I'm interested in the detail of that.
Also how did he extend it further. You cast a lot of aspersions without any meat on the bone of your allegations.

You may feel stupid but dont talk for everyone, I'm quite pleased we have managed to improve on Mays deal. Anyhow, I wait for you to detail and justify your comments.

Did we leave on 31st October ? So it’s extended

And remind what happens to Northern Ireland with Boris deal ? Which of course he went against everything he stated - what was it he said “Will never be a border on the Irish Sea “ - what does his deal do again

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/...esa-mays-and-infinitely-inferior-to-remaining

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-deal-is-worse-for-economy-than-may-s-be-says

https://politicshome.com/news/uk/ec...hnsons-brexit-deal-worse-economy-theresa-mays

 

[Deleted member 21784]

This for me shows what a deplorable man he is and also how indirectly he had a hand in people losing lives at Grenfell

Boris has always been a shyster , he cuts everything to the bear bones but never his fault. Says one thing then does another

Cuts the firefighters
Says he would vote to stay in EU then campaigns for leave
Says he won't shut LUL ticket offices then closes the lot.

Says what the people want to hear and then does what suits his career most

 

[SocketRocket]

No, No, No, that’s all theory, you have no more proof of that being his motive than we have saying it wasn’t.
His whole mantra from day 1 got politicians on all sides worried.
Serious question......Why should politicians have such blind faith in him, if he’d of failed we’d be out now with No Deal, what if that wasn’t what the majority wanted?
Oh sorry guys, I was bluffing, but on the bright side, some people are happy.

No,No, No. His priority is not and should not be what politicians want but what the voting public want. Many politicians have been untruthful with their intentions (see i didn't call them a bag of venomous liars) suggesting they were only interested in stopping a no deal.

 

[SocketRocket]

Did we leave on 31st October ? So it’s extended

And remind what happens to Northern Ireland with Boris deal ? Which of course he went against everything he stated - what was it he said “Will never be a border on the Irish Sea “ - what does his deal do again

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/...esa-mays-and-infinitely-inferior-to-remaining

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-deal-is-worse-for-economy-than-may-s-be-says

https://politicshome.com/news/uk/ec...hnsons-brexit-deal-worse-economy-theresa-mays

I didnt ask you to trawl the internet for editorials that agree with your view, anyone can do that to support just about any view. Try to give a reply in your own words and thoughts.

I thought it was May suggesting no border in the irish sea. The Northern Irish seem to come out quite well in his deal actually.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I didnt ask you to trawl the internet for editorials that agree with your view, anyone can do that to support just about any view. Try to give a reply in your own words and thoughts.

I thought it was May suggesting no border in the irish sea. The Northern Irish seem to come out quite well in his deal actually.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....e-put-a-border-in-the-irish-sea-1-9110754/amp

 

[Deleted member 16999]

No,No, No. His priority is not and should not be what politicians want but what the voting public want. Many politicians have been untruthful with their intentions (see i didn't call them a bag of venomous liars) suggesting they were only interested in stopping a no deal.

He doesn’t represent the public, only a section of it. He’s a PM not a dictator!
If it was a bluff then he should of took his party and partners with him, whose fault is it the DUP and 21 tories voted against him.

 

[harpo_72]

Did we leave on 31st October ? So it’s extended

And remind what happens to Northern Ireland with Boris deal ? Which of course he went against everything he stated - what was it he said “Will never be a border on the Irish Sea “ - what does his deal do again

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/...esa-mays-and-infinitely-inferior-to-remaining

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-deal-is-worse-for-economy-than-may-s-be-says

https://politicshome.com/news/uk/ec...hnsons-brexit-deal-worse-economy-theresa-mays

Independent reviews as well of the economy.. perhaps May’s deal wasn’t a full break but that shows a negative impact to our economy.
As for throwing the DUP under the bus .. that’s the best thing Boris has done, if he can Do it to Rees Mogg, that would be well impressive.