Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Mudball]

My 'Near Term' definition (as opposed to my earlier 'short term description' - noting the different terms) would seem more appropriate to me, though dealing with the EU always seems to take longer than it should, so maybe heading toward 'Mid Term'.
I'd challenge how, following an assumed dip, UK can 'regain its current position' without growing!
Also Brexit, however significant any dip might be, is hardly likely to 'wipe out' a 'productive working career' - except maybe for some whose career is dealing with th EU!

Brits won't suddenly get poorer because of Brexit (or even No Brexit)! But different bits of the economy are likely to be affected differently, some negatively; others positively.

Btw. I'm 66, so likely even further along the 'productive working career' path!

After the dip.. it will grow. But that growth is to regain its current position. Depending on spin, you can say the tories are going to add 20k police officers. The reality is that they are only filling the gap they created in the first place.

Our line of business (technology) is highly dependent on ability to import and export talent into the EU. Clients are global and we need to ensure we serve them anywhere they want. So FoM and being competitive on the £ is crucial and so is certainty. A decade of naval gazing and looking inwards is not going to make us more competitive esp when the world is flat.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Our line of business (technology) is highly dependent on ability to import and export talent into the EU. Clients are global and we need to ensure we serve them anywhere they want. So FoM and being competitive on the £ is crucial and so is certainty. A decade of naval gazing and looking inwards is not going to make us more competitive esp when the world is flat.

Then adjust! That's what businesses - or at least ones that survive/flourish in a competitive world - do!

 

[Mudball]

Then adjust! That's what businesses - or at least ones that survive/flourish in a competitive world - do!

I never said we won’t adjust.. we will. The first thing we are doing is move the EMEA campus out of London to a European city.. so about 500 jobs will relocate. I agree we will adjust - however we could have thrived

 

[Deleted member 15344]

 

[Hobbit]

Yes if we read the stats from that report there is a higher prevalence to violence from the Leave side .. and it’s bigger than the winning % ..

Maybe I'm being a little cynical but why just highlight the Leave side? From what I can remember from reading the article a couple/few days back its the majority of both sides surveyed who said they don't see anything wrong with violence towards MP's.

60% of Leave in England and, I think, 58% of Remain.... and you only highlight Leave... Really? Subconscious bias or a genuine attempt to take some moral high ground?

If you take the numbers from both sides, extrapolate them out, you're looking at 8,000,000 people who think its ok. I'd like to think that, like many polls, its no where near that but even if its 8,000, or 800 or 80 or 8, its just wrong.

 

[clubchamp98]

Maybe I'm being a little cynical but why just highlight the Leave side? From what I can remember from reading the article a couple/few days back its the majority of both sides surveyed who said they don't see anything wrong with violence towards MP's.

60% of Leave in England and, I think, 58% of Remain.... and you only highlight Leave... Really? Subconscious bias or a genuine attempt to take some moral high ground?

If you take the numbers from both sides, extrapolate them out, you're looking at 8,000,000 people who think its ok. I'd like to think that, like many polls, its no where near that but even if its 8,000, or 800 or 80 or 8, its just wrong.

Technically he is correct ! It is higher.
But you can make statistics say what you want.
Like 52% is higher than 48%

 

[Hobbit]

Technically he is correct ! It is higher.
But you can make statistics say what you want.
Like 52% is higher than 48%

I know he's correct. That I'm not disputing in the slightest but is it then ok for the 58% of Remainers to resort to violence? Should not the concern be that people from both sides think its ok to resort to violence?

Why do so many think its ok? What is being done to find the root causes and address them?

 

[harpo_72]

I know he's correct. That I'm not disputing in the slightest but is it then ok for the 58% of Remainers to resort to violence? Should not the concern be that people from both sides think its ok to resort to violence?

Why do so many think its ok? What is being done to find the root causes and address them?

No your right completely it’s disgraceful.
But the previous post threatened action from the leave side if we chose to remain and I was highlighting that the stats would indicate larger numbers would kick off.
But let me reiterate it would be disgraceful behaviour irrespective of the side.

 

[clubchamp98]

I know he's correct. That I'm not disputing in the slightest but is it then ok for the 58% of Remainers to resort to violence? Should not the concern be that people from both sides think its ok to resort to violence?

Why do so many think its ok? What is being done to find the root causes and address them?

Maybe we are being bombarded by what’s happening in the likes of Hong Kong.
Where the people will not tolerate poor decisions from government.
We are pretty casual about things like this but I do detect a change in the people.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No your right completely it’s disgraceful.
But the previous post threatened action from the leave side if we chose to remain and I was highlighting that the stats would indicate larger numbers would kick off.
But let me reiterate it would be disgraceful behaviour irrespective of the side.

If the UK don’t leave then I suspect there will pockets of rioting because a public vote will have been ignored

Regardless of which way people voted the politicians actions are all down to their own self preservation and that’s not going to go down well with people

And ultimately when we do leave and if it turns out to be a shocking thing to do then people who voted to leave will react

Either way the future isn’t pretty at the moment

 

[harpo_72]

If the UK don’t leave then I suspect there will pockets of rioting because a public vote will have been ignored

Regardless of which way people voted the politicians actions are all down to their own self preservation and that’s not going to go down well with people

And ultimately when we do leave and if it turns out to be a shocking thing to do then people who voted to leave will react

Either way the future isn’t pretty at the moment

The scary thing is if the GE is fought in a manner that courses further divides we could be be in a horrific situation.
They must unite

 

[SocketRocket]

i thought that was Indyref?

Not at all, it was the EU teferendum, over 70% turn out from memory.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not at all, it was the EU teferendum, over 70% turn out from memory.

Over 80% turnout for Scotland referendum 72% for EU

 

[Foxholer]

I never said we won’t adjust.. we will. The first thing we are doing is move the EMEA campus out of London to a European city.. so about 500 jobs will relocate. I agree we will adjust - however we could have thrived

Seems eminently sensible and demonstrates another reason why I voted Remain - it's not simply a case of 'losing business', but 'losing businesses'!
But again, accept the result, adjust, where required, and move on!

 

[Hobbit]

The 17.4m 'v' 16.2m continues to raise it head and is used as a reason for a re-run or stopping Brexit completely. Many Remainers have shouted it, and shouted it.

Here's a thought; how many people pushed for another GE straight after the last one? Why? Well, the difference between first and second in that GE was less than 1m. How many times has anyone shouted for another GE because the vote was so narrow, and it also didn't reach 50% of those who voted, only 45.6% voted Tory.

We could argue the toss on FPTP 'v' proportional representation. Fire away but that wasn't the rules surrounding the last GE.

Makes you wonder...??

 

[harpo_72]

The 17.4m 'v' 16.2m continues to raise it head and is used as a reason for a re-run or stopping Brexit completely. Many Remainers have shouted it, and shouted it.

Here's a thought; how many people pushed for another GE straight after the last one? Why? Well, the difference between first and second in that GE was less than 1m. How many times has anyone shouted for another GE because the vote was so narrow, and it also didn't reach 50% of those who voted, only 45.6% voted Tory.

We could argue the toss on FPTP 'v' proportional representation. Fire away but that wasn't the rules surrounding the last GE.

Makes you wonder...??

The GE nullified the referendum making it yesterday’s news. No point quoting the referendum figures ... the GE was an opportunity not taken

 

[Hobbit]

The GE nullified the referendum making it yesterday’s news. No point quoting the referendum figures ... the GE was an opportunity not taken

Isn't that down to personal interpretation. I don't equate a GE with a referendum. Simply, a GE is about who manages all aspects of the UK.

But to go with your logic, both the Tories and Labour campaigned on a very solid Leave mandate. Does that mean 97.5%, the combined Tory/Labour vote, of the voters were in favour of Leave?

Don't get me wrong, I'm asking (almost) rhetorical questions.

 

[robinthehood]

The 17.4m 'v' 16.2m continues to raise it head and is used as a reason for a re-run or stopping Brexit completely. Many Remainers have shouted it, and shouted it.

Here's a thought; how many people pushed for another GE straight after the last one? Why? Well, the difference between first and second in that GE was less than 1m. How many times has anyone shouted for another GE because the vote was so narrow, and it also didn't reach 50% of those who voted, only 45.6% voted Tory.

We could argue the toss on FPTP 'v' proportional representation. Fire away but that wasn't the rules surrounding the last GE.

Makes you wonder...??

Because a GE is not voted in the same way a referendum is...... one was binary choice the other fptp constituency and seats...What a daft comparison

 

[Fade and Die]

Was waiting for that .. but we are not seeing very many of the 17.4 Million breaking cover apart from a select few on here.

Or you have highlighted the MSM bias beautifully. Top man.👍

 

[harpo_72]

Isn't that down to personal interpretation. I don't equate a GE with a referendum. Simply, a GE is about who manages all aspects of the UK.

But to go with your logic, both the Tories and Labour campaigned on a very solid Leave mandate. Does that mean 97.5%, the combined Tory/Labour vote, of the voters were in favour of Leave?

Don't get me wrong, I'm asking (almost) rhetorical questions.

That’s a fair point but the Tory’s owned Brexit. Voting for anyone else was saying they disagreed with the Tory leave vision. But also was pretty silly if you wanted to leave ..