harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Thanks for the quality appraisal, like all your posts it’s total cobblers 🤣 and you cannot play golf either because you just troll this thread with your far right opinions. ðŸ‘
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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Grant85
Head Pro
well well well... the Government want an election (again) but parliament are not prepared to consent to one.
Of course the will of the people - recorded in June 2017 - was that this parliament should be a finely balanced one and should have to find and agree compromise on all issues prior to the next General Election on 5th May 2022
Obviously the government have not been particularly good at compromise and the opposition have also not been united enough to really come up with genuine and workable solutions.
Bottom line is that the referendum result was close (48 / 52) and this should mean that the EU negotiations should have taken account of that. Instead, both May and Johnson deals have torn up our relationship with Europe and in both cases would have led to agreeing a completely new relationship (in an increasingly tight timescale, which would almost certainly need extended), while simultaneously attempting to agree trade deals with almost every other market in the world.
I'm sure a Norway type arrangement (EFTA) if that had been the starting point by government would have been agreed with the EU much easier and quicker. Sure, the screaming brexiteers would not have been happy, and neither the pro EU Lib Dems and SNP... but the vast majority of MPs would have stomached such a compromise and it would likely have passed with a 3 figure majority. It would have delivered on the referendum result AND taken account of the tight result.
Instead the Tories attempted to appease the right of their party, which has led to a deal reliant on hardliners with v little chance of many moderate Tories or Labour members supporting it, and certainly not enthusiastically.
Both PM's have attempted to get these deals through by running the clock down and attempting to make it a 'this deal or no deal' decision. Obviously that has worked to an extent, with a potential majority for Johnson's current deal, but I'm sure if Johnson thought he could get his deal though, reliant on up to 19 Labour MPs and a number of ex-Tories... he would be proceeding with that rather than throwing his toys out the pram.
Clearly a GE could potentially break this deadlock - but it could also lead to similar parliamentary numbers solving nothing and giving us another deadline on 31st January.
A binding referendum - this deal or remain - would provide a real and definite solution that could be delivered by 31st Jan. Only risk is that another tight result might not put the issue to bed - but with the next election in 2022... people on both sides would have to get on with it.
Of course the will of the people - recorded in June 2017 - was that this parliament should be a finely balanced one and should have to find and agree compromise on all issues prior to the next General Election on 5th May 2022
Obviously the government have not been particularly good at compromise and the opposition have also not been united enough to really come up with genuine and workable solutions.
Bottom line is that the referendum result was close (48 / 52) and this should mean that the EU negotiations should have taken account of that. Instead, both May and Johnson deals have torn up our relationship with Europe and in both cases would have led to agreeing a completely new relationship (in an increasingly tight timescale, which would almost certainly need extended), while simultaneously attempting to agree trade deals with almost every other market in the world.
I'm sure a Norway type arrangement (EFTA) if that had been the starting point by government would have been agreed with the EU much easier and quicker. Sure, the screaming brexiteers would not have been happy, and neither the pro EU Lib Dems and SNP... but the vast majority of MPs would have stomached such a compromise and it would likely have passed with a 3 figure majority. It would have delivered on the referendum result AND taken account of the tight result.
Instead the Tories attempted to appease the right of their party, which has led to a deal reliant on hardliners with v little chance of many moderate Tories or Labour members supporting it, and certainly not enthusiastically.
Both PM's have attempted to get these deals through by running the clock down and attempting to make it a 'this deal or no deal' decision. Obviously that has worked to an extent, with a potential majority for Johnson's current deal, but I'm sure if Johnson thought he could get his deal though, reliant on up to 19 Labour MPs and a number of ex-Tories... he would be proceeding with that rather than throwing his toys out the pram.
Clearly a GE could potentially break this deadlock - but it could also lead to similar parliamentary numbers solving nothing and giving us another deadline on 31st January.
A binding referendum - this deal or remain - would provide a real and definite solution that could be delivered by 31st Jan. Only risk is that another tight result might not put the issue to bed - but with the next election in 2022... people on both sides would have to get on with it.
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D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Your lack of knowledge of the Scottish political scene shines like a beacon, its one poll.
Bet you cannot find any that say the opposite.
For a bit of balance.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=scott...c23494fc394a9bc676b072a32&cc=GB&setlang=en-GB
Do you have anything more current as opposed to months ago ?
The recent poll results which I posted were from 2 days ago
Come on Doon - must do better
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
I’ll hold my hand up to that, not quite sure about his Cabinet acting as a team either.
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-view...e-by-uniting-n-ireland-in-opposition-11844325
Whoa there Neddy! That's not just a bit over the top, that's full of its own vitriol. Jeez, dial it back a bit.
Grant85 - I think the opposing sides in parliament are now so firmly entrenched that it would not matter what proposals were put forward. They all have tunnel vision and have lost perspective of what they are actually trying to achieve. It is about a power grab, Brexit is almost a side show. Hopefully an election would shake them up, get rid of a few from each side and maybe some new blood would be less entrenched. (he said hopefully)
Er, the will of the people wasn't for a finely balanced parliament. If you ask everyone that voted you'd find that 99.99% are opposed to a hung parliament. Their will was for either a Tory, or Labour or LibDem or or or govt.
drdel
Tour Rookie
I'm assuming those who like to rubbish the PM using 'lair' label have never lied.
I'd also suggest that you would need a very large net if you wanted to scoop up the previous PMs, UK/EU politicians, corporate leaders, journalists etc who have never been caught out. Its just an empty insult that moves no debate forward.
I'd also suggest that you would need a very large net if you wanted to scoop up the previous PMs, UK/EU politicians, corporate leaders, journalists etc who have never been caught out. Its just an empty insult that moves no debate forward.
Grant85
Head Pro
That's the will of a person.
The will of the people collectively was for a hung parliament - depriving the Tories of their majority.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
It has nothing to do with what he has done in the past.
Let's remember he didn't even try to get a deal with Brussels until MPs countered his unlawful prorogue of Parliament as he was aiming for No Deal, instead effectively going out on an election campaign trail with promises of more police officers and new hospitals. It was only when Parliament blocked that that he went for the minimal deal option where he came back with a deal demonstrably worse than May's, as he rubbed out the red lines he had sworn to protect, threw NI under a bus and promised the ERG that they could still have No Deal at the end of 2020.
I'm sure that if you could be bothered to search you would find serial offenders who've turned their lives around and become positive contributors to society. Some people will have done some serious, untrustworthy stuff in the past and have gone on to great things.
Do I trust Johnson? No. Will I ever trust Johnson? No. But if he does achieve anything positive I will give him credit for it.
Was the will of all the Tory voters, all the Labour voters etc for a hung parliament? None of them wanted a hung parliament. The result is a hung parliament but not the will for a hung parliament. Its semantics that we'll just have to disagree on.
drdel
Tour Rookie
Pure speculation...
That's your opinion. Don't forget his team was going backwards and forwards to the EU for quite while before the proroguing. I believe his strategy forced the EU to negotiate when it was them who said they would talk but wouldn't open the WA or drop the backstop.
Grant85
Head Pro
it is what it is.
To ask them again 2 years later is basically refusing to compromise, and like I said, no guarantee you would get a significantly different result.
Since when has a govt compromised with its opposition? The nearest thing to that only happens in a coalition govt. As for what the next result will be; it will be what it will be.
drdel
Tour Rookie
EU agrees to a delay, but they've delayed saying how long !!
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
It goes to integrity and honesty, he’s lost jobs and hurt people and those closest to him, crack on making excuses for him, that’s your call, just don’t expect anyone else to agree.
I’d feel the same way about anyone else who had behaved like he has.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Mhairi Black, she would have had then soiling their keeks.
Old Mhairi “itchy gums†Black?
drdel
Tour Rookie
Not a defence just pointing out the hypocrisy and the fact its boring and repetitive...
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