Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Deleted member 15344]

We are trying to leave the UK, but for some strange reason most of the Westminster politicians are desperate to cling on to us.
Something fishy about that as, according to many of them, they subsidise us to the hilt.

Who is this “we” you are referring too ?

 

[harpo_72]

I think that was more to do with the God complex that Blair has. So disappointing as I felt he was a breath of fresh air to UK politics, but like so many once he'd had power for a while he felt he could do no wrong... power corrupts (even the best?).

He was a breath of fresh air.
Did he become corrupted, don’t know but he did fall out with the sun and the gutter press turned on him.

 

[Foxholer]

Did you miss the ???? at the end of "even the best" and, of course, you know I was referring to Blair in that comment
...

Whether you were or weren't refering to Blair was irrelevant for my post!

 

[Slime]

i think Lib Dems are the only choice of those who want to stay.. if they voted the same way as the refererdum, then they get about 49% of votes + any swing votes + any young votes (who are apparently pro-eu). That might make her a substantially a very strong position. How this translates to seats in the FPTP system remains to be seen. The Anti-EU brigade is split bit Tory, Brexit Party. Labour remains a floater

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Hobbit]

And so in lead up to a proposed December GE on or around the 12th December, parliament has to approve Johnson's deal by 6th November. Ah well. We here all knew all along that Johnson couldn't actually guarantee that UK would leave the EU on the 31st October - and that what he was saying was just a negotiating ploy all along and not to actually be believed.

Well - I suspect that everybody here knew that. But I am not so sure that everyone out there had the same understanding of what Johnson was up to as we here have - and suspect that many Leave voters bought into the Johnson's promise - and so they will blame (and are blaming) anyone and everything but Boris for not hitting his promised date. Yes - parliament has stopped him - but he was being disingenuous in ever die-in-a-ditch promising that he would. But that wasn't the point of the promise. I am guessing that he knew fine well that he probably wouldn't hit the date - but he also knew that if he didn't it wouldn't be seen as his fault. Don't you just love this shambles.

Anyway - enough of my despairing over Johnson.

Word has it that the SNP won't go for an election in the vote next week?

So you "suspect," and you're "not sure," and you're "guessing." But you assume "we all here knew," and "everyone here knew that."

Lottery numbers please... nowt changes.

 

[Taz]

Lib Dems - like the SNP - waiting to see extension details before backing election.

Jacob Rees-Mogg: I never thought I would see the Scottish Nationalist Party wishing the Tories would stay in office [by denying an election].

 

[Hobbit]

No I am voting liberal, Corbyn is too far left for most to be an acceptable offering. Plus he has not got his defined position on Brexit. I suspect that his wants are not financially viable but how aware are they on the actual state of the economy.. who knows. Like I said he would not have a free reign to change things without some HoC intervention.

I'd like to vote Labour, and suspect it won't be the LibDems as it usually is. Sad times, sad, sad times.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So you "suspect," and you're "not sure," and you're "guessing." But you assume "we all here knew," and "everyone here knew that."

Lottery numbers please... nowt changes.

Come on Bri - none of us know what is going to happen or why. And I am simply expressing my feeling for what is going on and why Johnson guaranteed the 31st date when he knew he couldn't actually do so - and that is a fact.

And I am making an assumption that everyone who is on this forum and the Brexit threads is pretty well up with most of what has been going on and why - at least as best as we can guess or understand.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd like to vote Labour, and suspect it won't be the LibDems as it usually is. Sad times, sad, sad times.

Snap - but can't with Corbyn - so would most probably be voting LibDem. If the National Health Action Party doesn't put up a candidate Hunt could be run quite close.

Enjoying Farage on LBC at the moment ... a 6th Nov Brexit might well scupper him in a 12th December GE. And what a surprise - he is 100% vehement against Johnson's BRINO deal. He's having to argue with Leave voters ... for just about the first time in the all the time he's been doing the phone-in - correcting them for their misunderstandings and confusion over what Johnson is up to and what his Deal means. Current caller is a strong Leave voters telling Johnson that the electorate didn't really understand the issues enough and it needs to be MPs as they are paid to understand this complex stuff. Bit of a dilemma for Farage having to argue with potential BP supporters.

And Farage is having a real go at the 'Let's Get This Done' slogan...and he is right. Agreeing the deal is only the end of the beginning...and Farage knows that and he is telling that to everyone who will listen...

 

[Taz]

Moreover remainers in Parliament are risking scoring a HUGE own goal and playing into govt’s hands. Dismiss an election now and message to the EU is don’t bother with January extension, might as well only offer a short one. This could well be Downing St’s calculation.

 

[Fade and Die]

Most people vote for Labour in support of an ideology they unfortunately abandoned years ago. They are no longer the party for the traditional working class.

 

[harpo_72]

Moreover remainers in Parliament are risking scoring a HUGE own goal and playing into govt’s hands. Dismiss an election now and message to the EU is don’t bother with January extension, might as well only offer a short one. This could well be Downing St’s calculation.

But are they? Time will tell. Might as well have a little gamble on it

 

[Hobbit]

Come on Bri - none of us know what is going to happen or why. And I am simply expressing my feeling for what is going on and why Johnson guaranteed the 31st date when he knew he couldn't actually do so - and that is a fact.

And I am making an assumption that everyone who is on this forum and the Brexit threads is pretty well up with most of what has been going on and why - at least as best as we can guess or understand.

Hugh, maybe you don't see it. Maybe its clumsiness on your part, but you 'sell' so much as fact. I picked up on something yesterday or the day before which was so obviously an assumption, and I let it go. By all means continue to post in a similar vein but I will guarantee you you will continue to get crucified for it. By all means post up opinions, but say they are your opinions. Argue your opinions supported by facts and I'd hope you will get a genuine debate.

Think about it. The Leave and Remain campaigns were to a large extent full of lies and half truths. So many opinions from experts were based on lies and half truths. If you are going to peddle half truths and opinions as black and white facts, what will people think? What will people come back at you with? And if you carry out character assassinations of some politicians who are golden in the eyes of some, what sort of response do you expect will come back at you?

Until Boris Johnson has a healthy track record behind him I'll continue to believe he's a Trump-lite but you won't see me posting up the vile assassinations you post up. You will, on occasion, see me post up comments about wee Krankie but only as a direct response to some of the stuff the village idiot posts up. As much as I don't like her or the majority of her politics, I respect her as a damn good politician - the SNP's record in elections says they've got it pretty much spot on.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Lol get a grip, a factule peice of news was all it was aor are you a JS fan??

No fan of any politician or party, just despise publications such as Evolve Politics who present themselves as independent when that could not be further from the truth.

 

[Taz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1187477927107026949

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Come on Bri - none of us know what is going to happen or why. And I am simply expressing my feeling for what is going on and why Johnson guaranteed the 31st date when he knew he couldn't actually do so - and that is a fact.

And I am making an assumption that everyone who is on this forum and the Brexit threads is pretty well up with most of what has been going on and why - at least as best as we can guess or understand.

You do have the cheek of the devil!
You are calling BJ out as a liar because he said he would leave EU on 31st, though he knew he couldn't.
Rubbish. It is clear to any independent fair minded observer that he would have left, (a) if he got a deal, or (b) if he didn't, because he was prepared to go whichever way it went. The negotiations would go to the UKs satisfaction , or they wouldn't, either way he would go.
The HoC knew that too, and so they, being mainly remainders, ( and no doubt after much legal searching) lit upon the idea that to stop him they needed to create a scenario that would make him a criminal if he went ahead true to his word. So they did just that. They created and passed a law.
And they knew also that no Prime Minister would openly and clearly break the law.
So they stitched him up.Gave him no choice but to write the letter.
And for that you call him a liar.
Jeez!

 

[SocketRocket]

You do have the cheek of the devil!
You are calling BJ out as a liar because he said he would leave EU on 31st, though he knew he couldn't.
Rubbish. It is clear to any independent fair minded observer that he would have left, (a) if he got a deal, or (b) if he didn't, because he was prepared to go whichever way it went. The negotiations would go to the UKs satisfaction , or they wouldn't, either way he would go.
The HoC knew that too, and so they, being mainly remainders, ( and no doubt after much legal searching) lit upon the idea that to stop him they needed to create a scenario that would make him a criminal if he went ahead true to his word. So they did just that. They created and passed a law.
And they knew also that no Prime Minister would openly and clearly break the law.
So they stitched him up.Gave him no choice but to write the letter.
And for that you call him a liar.
Jeez!

Exactly. Also by making the EU believe he might leave with no deal made them change their minds regarding the previous WA being sealed and not subject to change. SILH has no real concept of negotiating strategy.

 

[Wilson]

You do have the cheek of the devil!
You are calling BJ out as a liar because he said he would leave EU on 31st, though he knew he couldn't.
Rubbish. It is clear to any independent fair minded observer that he would have left, (a) if he got a deal, or (b) if he didn't, because he was prepared to go whichever way it went. The negotiations would go to the UKs satisfaction , or they wouldn't, either way he would go.
The HoC knew that too, and so they, being mainly remainders, ( and no doubt after much legal searching) lit upon the idea that to stop him they needed to create a scenario that would make him a criminal if he went ahead true to his word. So they did just that. They created and passed a law.
And they knew also that no Prime Minister would openly and clearly break the law.
So they stitched him up.Gave him no choice but to write the letter.
And for that you call him a liar.
Jeez!

BJ is a liar, it’s well documented he is, long before be become PM.

 

[harpo_72]

Exactly. Also by making the EU believe he might leave with no deal made them change their minds regarding the previous WA being sealed and not subject to change. SILH has no real concept of negotiating strategy.

It’s not a game here it’s 50+million people and their livelihoods. It’s evident that BJ was well out of his depth as are the people who think this is a game.

 

[Hobbit]

It’s not a game here it’s 50+million people and their livelihoods. It’s evident that BJ was well out of his depth as are the people who think this is a game.

Who said its a game? And where is the definitive proof that BJ is out of his depth?

Like him or not it would appear that the his strategy got the EU to reopen the WA and change the backstop. And his strategy appears to have made the EU want the extension rather than draw a line under Oct 31st and say No Deal.

Bearing in mind the whole bloody mess, he's not done a bad job in 85 days.