Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[clubchamp98]

I think they

I don't disagree with that, I was just pointing out the 2nd ref folk had a 1,000,000 folk supporting their cause on the streets of London whilst the Leave folk seemed surprisingly thin on the ground. I would have thought that in the circumstances there would be thousands of them out championing their cause.

they did in 2016 17.4 million of them. But have been forgotten by MPs!

 

[Hobbit]

People march to protest. That's part of democracy.
Of course numbers matter. The more numbers the more likely you are to get taken notice of and heard. Politicians fear the masses, masses instigate change.
Some places you aren't allowed to march, where freedoms are outlawed.

I agree with everything you’ve said but in terms of 1 million marching or 34 million voting, which has the greater relevance?

 

[Fade and Die]

Can't see a coalition between Conservative/Brexit parties... A step too far for 'soft' tories I would suggest...

All hypothetical i know but assuming the Conservatives end up with the most seats but not an overall majority and Brexit Party win 15/20 seats maybe more i think the Tories would jump at the chance. No way they not grabbing power.

 

[harpo_72]

As stated GE will determine next stage .. democracy will be enacted you just have to make decision on the leave you want to get the majority in HoC and the remainers have the libs

 

[MegaSteve]

All hypothetical i know but assuming the Conservatives end up with the most seats but not an overall majority and Brexit Party win 15/20 seats maybe more i think the Tories would jump at the chance. No way they not grabbing power.

They might form a coalition post election... But, can't see them having an understanding, along the lines Farage has suggested, where they don't put up opposing candidates in a number of constituencies...

 

[SocketRocket]

It’s too far into the unknown no one wants take that risk .. hence the Benn Act.

I think a lot of people want to take that risk as they believe it will set us off with a clean sheet.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

People march to protest. That's part of democracy.
Of course numbers matter. The more numbers the more likely you are to get taken notice of and heard. Politicians fear the masses, masses instigate change.
Some places you aren't allowed to march, where freedoms are outlawed.

I agree with everything you’ve said but in terms of 1 million marching or 34 million voting, which has the greater relevance?

Maxfli, I agree to an extent, I was being economical with my words rather than expanding on my point. Hobbit has summed it up though, votes have to mean more than marches. People making noise have to be listened to but votes have to take precedent. 1m marchers can not have greater influence than 17.2m voters.

 

[drdel]

Maxfli, I agree to an extent, I was being economical with my words rather than expanding on my point. Hobbit has summed it up though, votes have to mean more than marches. People making noise have to be listened to but votes have to take precedent. 1m marchers can not have greater influence than 17.2m voters.

Especially when analysis of previous marches has found the actual number to be between 10% and 20% of 'press' claims !

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Especially when analysis of previous marches has found the actual number to be between 10% and 20% of 'press' claims !

Numbers at marches are usually pretty dubious and best taken with a huge amount of scepticism. There were good numbers there yesterday but the exact number is played with by both sides.

 

[Slime]

It’s too far into the unknown no one wants take that risk .. hence the Benn Act.
Ask yourself who will take the blame for no deal? Boris is putting on a front but if it happens and it goes wrong, how will he be remembered in history?? And that goes for every one, those wanting it are nowhere near responsible for making that decision. So their opinions are just winding up the idiot hot heads who have not got the capacity to weigh up the odds.

Speak for yourself, don't tell me what I want or don't want.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All hypothetical i know but assuming the Conservatives end up with the most seats but not an overall majority and Brexit Party win 15/20 seats maybe more i think the Tories would jump at the chance. No way they not grabbing power.

Brexit party win seats ? They are pretty much UKIP but in a new coat and they couldn’t win any seats so saying they could win 15/20 seems a wild stretch ?

The big coalition could be a Labour/LibDem one - imagine that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Liking the observation today that parliament, far from working against the will of the people who voted to leave - is actually the ‘friend’ of Farage, the BP, hard leavers - and the DUP. Because were it not for what parliament did yesterday the UK would today be leaving the EU on basis of BoJo’s deal - a Deal that is quite or totally at odds with the wishes of all of these people and groups. Clearly Johnson’s view of a great Brexit Deal is not shared - even by all leave voters. So much for Brexit means Brexit - Leave means Leave.

 

[robinthehood]

Brexit are not going to win 15 + seats.
I'd be surprised if they managed 1.
Open goal in the Peterborough by election and they missed that.
They won't get many better chances for an MP

 

[MegaSteve]

Numbers at marches are usually pretty dubious and best taken with a huge amount of scepticism. There were good numbers there yesterday but the exact number is played with by both sides.

I have spoken to a friend who was in town yesterday... They advised there were no where, in numbers, as many that attended the stop the Iraq war march involved... That was generally assessed as being half a million so no way was there million on the march yesterday...

 

[Blue in Munich]

She got a better deal than Boris.. she got the best deal that was going to happen. If you think anything can be improved you are living in Farage land

Perhaps you could point out where I've said Boris's deal is better? Claiming that May's deal is better than Boris's is like claiming to be the least gammy leper in the colony.

As for can anything be improved upon, it most certainly could be if the House hadn't tied our hands behind our back by taking no deal off the table but Project Fear rumbles on.

 

[Foxholer]

Liking the observation today that parliament, far from working against the will of the people who voted to leave - is actually the ‘friend’ of Farage, the BP, hard leavers - and the DUP. Because were it not for what parliament did yesterday the UK would today be leaving the EU on basis of BoJo’s deal - a Deal that is quite or totally at odds with the wishes of all of these people and groups. Clearly Johnson’s view of a great Brexit Deal is not shared - even by all leave voters. So much for Brexit means Brexit - Leave means Leave.

I believe the essence of the deal is still acceptable to the 'broad church' (it's Sunday after all) that is Leave. I don't believe there's anything in the deal that can permanently tie any part of the UK to the EU - at least none that can't be eliminated.

 

[Blue in Munich]

It’s too far into the unknown no one wants take that risk .. hence the Benn Act.
Ask yourself who will take the blame for no deal? Boris is putting on a front but if it happens and it goes wrong, how will he be remembered in history?? And that goes for every one, those wanting it are nowhere near responsible for making that decision. So their opinions are just winding up the idiot hot heads who have not got the capacity to weigh up the odds.

So no actual evidence of being worse off, just no guts for the fight from our politicians. Can hardly say I'm surprised.

 

[Foxholer]

She got a better deal than Boris.. she got the best deal that was going to happen. If you think anything can be improved you are living in Farage land

Er...I disagree! Please explain which parts of the May deal are better than BoJo's one - at least from a 'Leaving the EU' perspective!

 

[Slime]

Perhaps you could point out where I've said Boris's deal is better? Claiming that May's deal is better than Boris's is like claiming to be the least gammy leper in the colony.

As for can anything be improved upon, it most certainly could be if the House hadn't tied our hands behind our back by taking no deal off the table but Project Fear rumbles on.

.................. and for that reason, Hilary Benn should be tried for treason.
Oh, and we should do the same with Letwin, while we're at it.

 

[Foxholer]

.................. and for that reason, Hilary Benn should be tried for treason.
Oh, and we should do the same with Letwin, while we're at it.

I believe both Benn, particularly, and Letwin have contributed positively to getting a deal!