Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Mudball]

If we ignore the issue of BoJo's use of language for about 15 mins, there is a small matter of the Backstop. According to the FT, BoJo, hasnt figured out what the common market is.
Very interesting article here

https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-d9b7-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

For those unable to see the FT, here are some choicest parts.

.. Of course this is all EU's fault for not telling him what it means before he became PM.

 

[harpo_72]

If we ignore the issue of BoJo's use of language for about 15 mins, there is a small matter of the Backstop. According to the FT, BoJo, hasnt figured out what the common market is.
Very interesting article here

https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-d9b7-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

For those unable to see the FT, here are some choicest parts.

.. Of course this is all EU's fault for not telling him what it means before he became PM.

Seriously? You cannot imagine the stupidity of it all.
If you want to leave Boris is not your man. I am pretty sure he is ignorant of other important stuff.

 

[Foxholer]

If we ignore the issue of BoJo's use of language for about 15 mins, there is a small matter of the Backstop. According to the FT, BoJo, hasnt figured out what the common market is.
Very interesting article here

https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-d9b7-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

For those unable to see the FT, here are some choicest parts.

.. Of course this is all EU's fault for not telling him what it means before he became PM.

No surprise (to me at least) really!

1. BJ isn't interested in detail!
2. BJ isn't really expecting/interested in a 'deal'!
3. Juncker/EU (still) promoting the 'UK doesn't appreciate the benefits of EU membership'

How BJ gets around the problems he took on, I have no idea! But it's vital for the UK that he finds a way!

 

[Foxholer]

Seriously? You cannot imagine the stupidity of it all.
...

Unfortunately, it's not imagination!

....
If you want to leave Boris is not your man...

I disagree! I believe he's THE man! Though I'm uncertain about his ability to do it!

...I am pretty sure he is ignorant of other important stuff.

I'm almost certain he is!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

...and they did not support the government position - though I hear government ministers - James Cleverley this morning being the latest - and leave supporting Tory MPs making that exact claim. It is simply not true that the English court supported the government - yet they continue to mislead and misinform those listening. And as a result we have leave voters claiming the English decision balances out the uk Supreme Court decision - giving them a feeling of right to challenge the Supreme Court decision and to claim it was wrong - following of course the line being pushed by Johnson.

It is a disgraceful way for the utterly shameless bunch comprising the government to behave. They bleat about upholding the will of the people. Humbug!

Well I don't see anything fairminded about your views here. One of the arguments of the government lawyers in all the courts was that the prorogation was a political matter and not one for the courts.
That was the decision of the courts before the Supreme Court said otherwise.
Which means that what you are saying above isn't so. But, being a stated Boris "hater" ( in view of names you have called him), you don't seem to let facts get in the way of your opinions.
Boris and AG have both opined that the Supreme Court judgment was wrong, something which they and anyone else is entitled to do. I am entitled to opine
that it is wrong:you are entitled to opine that it was right.
Cleverly et al are entitled to opine also. Which you call a disgrace.
What should worry you is the trend to run to the Courts when there is a law that someone doesn't like, to get it changed.
Something the European court was used for increasingly to overturn laws made in our Parliament ( an important matter for leavers)
Maybe, as a remainer, our Sovereignty doesn't matter too much to you?
least not as much as your dislike of BJ.

 

[drdel]

If we ignore the issue of BoJo's use of language for about 15 mins, there is a small matter of the Backstop. According to the FT, BoJo, hasnt figured out what the common market is.
Very interesting article here

https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-d9b7-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

For those unable to see the FT, here are some choicest parts.

.. Of course this is all EU's fault for not telling him what it means before he became PM.

But the EU relies on the Internal market to survive. But by forcing artificially high levels of 'trade' between members it appears as increased growth. Since members contribute on the basis of GDP this is good for the Brussels budget machine - it is, of course, bad for citizens.

Now with their levels of debt and falling growth their PONSI system is threatened. Its the Thomas Cook theory of keep borrowing at interest rates greater than their RoI and hoping for enough growth to cover the shortfall - but it ain't: so good luck with that! UK cash is essential to them.

 

[Foxholer]

But the EU relies on the Internal market to survive. But by forcing artificially high levels of 'trade' between members it appears as increased growth. Since members contribute on the basis of GDP this is good for the Brussels budget machine - it is, of course, bad for citizens.

Now with their levels of debt and falling growth their PONSI systems is threatened. Its the Thomas Cook theory of keep borrowing at interest rates greater than their RoI and hoping for enough growth to cover the shortfall - but it ain't so good luck with that! UK is essential to them.

They do, however, have the (legitimate) ability to 'print money' to at least flatten the peaks/troughs (sic), albeit rather dependent on that 'growth'. So not a real Ponzi scheme!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well I don't see anything fairminded about your views here. One of the arguments of the government lawyers in all the courts was that the prorogation was a political matter and not one for the courts.
That was the decision of the courts before the Supreme Court said otherwise.
Which means that what you are saying above isn't so. But, being a stated Boris "hater" ( in view of names you have called him), you don't seem to let facts get in the way of your opinions.
Boris and AG have both opined that the Supreme Court judgment was wrong, something which they and anyone else is entitled to do. I am entitled to opine
that it is wrong:you are entitled to opine that it was right.
Cleverly et al are entitled to opine also. Which you call a disgrace.
What should worry you is the trend to run to the Courts when there is a law that someone doesn't like, to get it changed.
Something the European court was used for increasingly to overturn laws made in our Parliament ( an important matter for leavers)
Maybe, as a remainer, our Sovereignty doesn't matter too much to you?
least not as much as your dislike of BJ.

Please point me to, or remind me if, the names that I call Johnson that makes me a ‘Boris hater’.

I agree that I certainly have very serious issues with his lying and duplicity. But In fact contrary to hating him I feel pity for the guy - trapped in a hell of his own making with the ERG and millions of leave voters his gaolers.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well I don't see anything fairminded about your views here. One of the arguments of the government lawyers in all the courts was that the prorogation was a political matter and not one for the courts.
That was the decision of the courts before the Supreme Court said otherwise.
Which means that what you are saying above isn't so. But, being a stated Boris "hater" ( in view of names you have called him), you don't seem to let facts get in the way of your opinions.
Boris and AG have both opined that the Supreme Court judgment was wrong, something which they and anyone else is entitled to do. I am entitled to opine
that it is wrong:you are entitled to opine that it was right.
Cleverly et al are entitled to opine also. Which you call a disgrace.
What should worry you is the trend to run to the Courts when there is a law that someone doesn't like, to get it changed.
Something the European court was used for increasingly to overturn laws made in our Parliament ( an important matter for leavers)
Maybe, as a remainer, our Sovereignty doesn't matter too much to you?
least not as much as your dislike of BJ.

You need to understand that the uk Supreme Court ruling and the English high court rulings are not equivalents. That Johnson and his goons are making that equivalence and telling us that they are - stirring up resentment against the Supreme Court - is disgraceful. The Supreme Court judgement was very clearly not made on judgements of political policy - but on the role of parliament. They made that very clear at the outset.

The judges were looking for evidence to support what the government did. The government did not provide sufficient to support the longer prorogation. That neither the government nor any civil servant provided a witness statement confirming the basis for the prorogation as being for the purposes of a queens speech was rather telling.

However - since your opinion is that the Supreme Court ruling was wrong - which part of the court’s rationale and logic and laid out so unambiguously by Baroness Hale do you disagree with. Where did the logic go wrong?

 

[MegaSteve]

As an aside - in Perth on Tuesday we passed a city centre chippy advertising deep fried mars bars. And there was me thinking that that was just a myth. A Speaker Wishart would shoorly have to require mps to at least sample the delicacy before they pontificate on the diet of the poorer.

As an aside, it came up in conversation recently, my lad sampled the 'pleasure' of a deep fried mars bar in Whitby of all places...

 

[clubchamp98]

As an aside, it came up in conversation recently, my lad sampled the 'pleasure' of a deep fried mars bar in Whitby of all places...

I tried one in Scotland once and it was disgusting!
Much prefer it straight from the fridge.

 

[SocketRocket]

W

...and they did not support the government position - though I hear government ministers - James Cleverley this morning being the latest - and leave supporting Tory MPs making that exact claim. It is simply not true that the English court supported the government - yet they continue to mislead and misinform those listening. And as a result we have leave voters claiming the English decision balances out the uk Supreme Court decision - giving them a feeling of right to challenge the Supreme Court decision and to claim it was wrong - following of course the line being pushed by Johnson.

It is a disgraceful way for the utterly shameless bunch comprising the government to behave. They bleat about upholding the will of the people. Humbug!

Why are you posting here here again?

 

[USER1999]

I tried one in Scotland once and it was disgusting!
Much prefer it straight from the fridge.

Semi frozen is by far the best Mars bar option.

 

[SocketRocket]

Agreed, hopefully next time we’ll have a Labour MP voted in as the speaker.

Yes, maybe this calm and collected guy from his leavers constituancy would be able to keep things under control.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Please point me to, or remind me if, the names that I call Johnson that makes me a ‘Boris hater’.

I agree that I certainly have very serious issues with his lying and duplicity. But In fact contrary to hating him I feel pity for the guy - trapped in a hell of his own making with the ERG and millions of leave voters his gaolers.

Post 609 of Boris the PM....... thread.

 

[Fade and Die]

Yes, maybe this calm and collected guy from his leavers constituancy would be able to keep things under control.

View attachment 28268

Or this nutcase....who callously brings Jo Cox into the debate then plays the “offended” card when Boris “Humbugs” her 😂

 

[Old Skier]

Please point me to, or remind me if, the names that I call Johnson that makes me a ‘Boris hater’.

I agree that I certainly have very serious issues with his lying and duplicity. But In fact contrary to hating him I feel pity for the guy - trapped in a hell of his own making with the ERG and millions of leave voters his gaolers.

I'll give you "Johnson and his goons" as a starter for 10. But you really can't help yourself.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Or this nutcase....who callously brings Jo Cox into the debate then plays the “offended” card when Boris “Humbugs” her 😂

View attachment 28269

Paula Sherriff MP began working for the Police in a Victim Support role at the age of 18. She was proud to receive a Judge’s commendation for work she undertook supporting victims of sexual abuse. After nearly a decade in the Police Service, Paula joined the NHS, working in a front line role in Community Healthcare provision until being elected MP for Dewsbury constituency.

Would you like to try and explain why you are insulting this Lady and labelling her as a nutcase?

 

[Fade and Die]

Paula Sherriff MP began working for the Police in a Victim Support role at the age of 18. She was proud to receive a Judge’s commendation for work she undertook supporting victims of sexual abuse. After nearly a decade in the Police Service, Paula joined the NHS, working in a front line role in Community Healthcare provision until being elected MP for Dewsbury constituency.

Would you like to try and explain why you are insulting this Lady and labelling her as a nutcase?

Did you see her rant? She needlessly brought up jo cox and she was barely intelligible. Didn’t know owt about her previously so maybe it was just temporary madness? Tbh it seemed like mass hysteria had set in on the labour benches last night. Unable to land any relevant blows they clutched at being offended... Top darts! Not

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Did you see her rant? She needlessly brought up jo cox and she was barely intelligible. Didn’t know owt about her previously so maybe it was just temporary madness? Tbh it seemed like mass hysteria had set in on the labour benches last night. Unable to land any relevant blows they clutched at being offended... Top darts! Not

Have a look at post #13906 her question to the PM and reply is there.

You’re post is insulting, she spoke with passion about a friend and colleague who was murdered by an actual nutcase, she didn’t insult anyone or name call, but it seems you believe it gives you the right to insult her.

This is how sad our Country has become:
Jess Phillips: Man held after 'smacking windows' of MP's office and shouting 'fascist'
http://news.sky.com/story/jess-phil...s-of-mps-office-and-shouting-fascist-11820162