robinthehood
Hacker
How will it work?
Conscription?
The EU take dominion over our armed forces?
Will I be able to join up direct?
Or is it just plain old scaremongering 😉
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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Conscription?
The EU take dominion over our armed forces?
Will I be able to join up direct?
Or is it just plain old scaremongering 😉
woody69
Journeyman Pro
It literally says in Title III Article 3 Security & Defence - The Treaty of Lisbon does not provide for the creation of a European Army or for conscription to any military formations.
So not only is there no sign of it happening, we have a right to veto even if it did. In order NOT to exercise that right of veto we would have to ratify it in Parliament and then put it to the public by referendum.
So, there is no EU Army and defence remains exclusively a matter for member states. The EU has taken steps recently to boost defence cooperation. EU countries are collectively the 2nd largest defence spender in the world after the US, but an estimated 26.4bn euros are wasted every year due to duplication, overcapacity and barriers to procurement. As a result, more than six times as many defence systems are used in Europe than the US. This is where the EU is working to provide the conditions for countries to collaborate more.
woofers
Medal Winner
But wouldn’t it be lovely if the EU just says No .......and doesn’t offer a different date?
That way we would all know where we stand and can get on with it.
Leave on 31st Oct, no deal, WTO terms, move on.
Everyone I know is heartedly fed up with the whole process, meanwhile politicians of all persuasions have trashed their reputations and can’t be trusted.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
If you just answer my question with five of your own I won’t learn anything ,but that’s how propaganda works .
At least Woody explained it.
But collaborating leads to other things maybe not the near future .
But you can’t say never.
IanM
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Verhofstadt was very clear about EU Army and Federalism in his talks this week.
Federalism is out of the bag. The various presidents are finally quite open about it. But some of you lot are still worried about loo roll shortages!
But having taken No Deal off the table, we are now stuck with Federalism. Maybe then SNP and Lib Dims will have to re-brand soon!
Federalism is out of the bag. The various presidents are finally quite open about it. But some of you lot are still worried about loo roll shortages!
But having taken No Deal off the table, we are now stuck with Federalism. Maybe then SNP and Lib Dims will have to re-brand soon!
robinthehood
Hacker
But it's too late to explain it.... people based thier votes on this utter garbage.
IanM
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Well, its what Remainers wanted..... Federalism. Take no deal off the table, spend 3 years blocking.... that your fault mate.
Verhofstadt was very clear about EU Army and Federalism in his talks this week.
Federalism is out of the bag. The various presidents are finally quite open about it. But some of you lot are still worried about loo roll shortages!
But having taken No Deal off the table, we are now stuck with Federalism. Maybe then SNP and Lib Dims will have to re-brand soon!
If you want confirmation of the direction the European Defence and Security policy is going have a look at YouTube. There's plenty of news clips with Merkel, Macron and Juncker advocating a European Army. 3 years ago the Commission confirmed that a new HQ was needed for the EU military HQ. 2 years ago it was opened.
The EU has been deploying troops around the world, under an EU flag and control and command structure, since 2003.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
That is your opinion ,you are entitled to it .
But others disagree ,it’s impossible to know what the EU will do if we remain ,
Let’s be honest we will never be allowed to vote again by our own government so we need to get it right now.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Really I have just been told that’s Rubbish !
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Two very different story’s .
But who to belive?
Someone’s telling porkies.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Ref #135250, not sure how well known but what tends to be referred to recently as the "EU flag" started out as the "Council of Europe flag".
Not sure when it became blurred. The council of Europe actually has 47 member states.
So even if the UK did leave the EU, it would remain a member of the council of Europe. (So "flag" image still valid)
Not sure when it became blurred. The council of Europe actually has 47 member states.
So even if the UK did leave the EU, it would remain a member of the council of Europe. (So "flag" image still valid)
robinthehood
Hacker
What am I telling porkies about? We cannot be forced into an EU army.
If you go onto the EU Commission's own website you'll find plenty on the EU's Defence and Security policy. If you go onto a not so reputable site like Wiki, before anyone diss's it, you'll see a list of all the conflicts the EU have sent troops to. You will also see that the overall commander is changed every xx years. Think either a British General has just stepped down, or has just taken over.
At present, each country can say no to sending troops but if they say yes, and something escalates they can't pull them back.
Quite what direction it will all go isn't decided but there is a piece from Juncker kicking about in which he questions the USA's commitment to NATO and calls for the EU forces to be boosted. Germany acknowledge the need but are reluctant, due to history, to fully commit to the wording, although they have said they want the French president to be placed in overall command. Macron is very open about it.
What becomes reality, who knows...........
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes sorry maybe wrong term used.
But you are rubbishing something you can’t possibly predict.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes I remember seeing this exact stuff on the news ages ago.
So it’s an army by everything but name. Up to now.
You can't say that! All the hair splitters will call you a liar and a charlatan
It is splitting hairs in some respects but at present each country's army is very much under the control of that country, until it is seconded. Quite what the wording in agreeing each secondment is I honestly don't know but I dare say the terms of reference change with each circumstance.
And until there is no direct command from recruitment onwards, i.e. they become EU employees, not Crown employees, there is no EU army.
drdel
Tour Rookie
The irony is that most of the EU military capability of the r27 is from the nations that can least afford it!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Yet!
But plenty of indication that one could well be around the corner.
Exerpt from this doc...
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...-what-is-europe-really-doing-to-boost-defence
EU leaders realise that no EU country can tackle the current security threats in isolation. For example French President Macron called for a joint European military project in 2017, while German chancellor Merkel said “we ought to work on the vision of one day establishing a proper European army†in her address to the European Parliament in November 2018. Moving towards a security and defence union has been one of the priorities of the Juncker Commission.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/resou...0190621PHT55026/20190621PHT55026_original.jpg
robinthehood
Hacker
Sure, but there are 2 separate strands here....
What's the point of the union if you can't collaborate in areas such as defence.
Can we be forced to ? No .
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