Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Blue in Munich]

It’s only tied the PM’s hands if he is to be believed, he switches from saying he believes he can get a better deal to saying we leave on the 31st Oct with no deal regardless.
Whose he bluffing? Us? The EU? Both?

I genuinely have no faith in him, he’s a known liar, second only to Prince Philip in embarrassing himself in public, he’s now asking for support from MP’s that he’s failed to give previous PM’s himself in the past and then sacking them.

I’ll ask you question, If he comes back with a deal and for some tory MP’s, who want the No Deal, vote against him will you be happy when he sacks them?

Until I see the deal I can't answer that; if he comes back with a deal like Theresa May's, I'll be more than happy for people to vote against him, if he comes back with a decent one then I'll be furious if they vote against him. In the latter circumstance I'll be happy for him to sack them.

As regards the liar tag, every damn one of them do that and I have far greater concerns about Corbyn & Abbott than I do about Johnson. And failing to support May's deal was doing the country a service.

 

[Imurg]

298-56
If this was an important vote where the hell were the rest of the house..?
And how is that not a big enough majority?
Or was it just assumed the missing members ( and I mean that most sincerely Folks) votes weren't required.?
This bunch wouldn't cut it in the playground of the local junior school.
Are we in a version of the Truman Show and the audience are wetting themselves laughing..?

 

[Dando]

298-56
If this was an important vote where the hell were the rest of the house..?
And how is that not a big enough majority?
Or was it just assumed the missing members ( and I mean that most sincerely Folks) votes weren't required.?
This bunch wouldn't cut it in the playground of the local junior school.
Are we in a version of the Truman Show and the audience are wetting themselves laughing..?

Boris needed a majority of the total house not just a majority of the votes cast

 

[Imurg]

Boris needed a majority of the total house not just a majority of the votes cast

That just has to be wrong...the system is just .....I haven't got words for it.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

298-56
If this was an important vote where the hell were the rest of the house..?
And how is that not a big enough majority?
Or was it just assumed the missing members ( and I mean that most sincerely Folks) votes weren't required.?
This bunch wouldn't cut it in the playground of the local junior school.
Are we in a version of the Truman Show and the audience are wetting themselves laughing..?

Labour abstained en mass,

I give up now, it’s an utter farce and this country has its trousers round it’s ankles.

Luckily for the politicians the British version of a revolution consists of a few tuts and shakes of the head.

If this happened in France, they would have built a guillotine by now

 

[Kellfire]

Twaddle! Anyone rolling out this crap is getting desperate.

I guess Jonathan Pie is something you don't understand. Colour me shocked.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Do these two people really lead our country right now 🤦‍♂️ I’m not sure what’s worse for us - Johnson and the idiot lounging around , Corbyn and his cronies , Farage and his lot or the EU - not looking good is it , up the proverbial creek without paddle

I am confused on something - over the last year is it they have had countless votes about many things to do with Brexit and there have been Tory MP’s that have voted against the PM as is their right surely , some of those people are now in the cabinet or senior positions. Johnson appears to have been defeated in every vote he has ( not sure what that says about him ) and any Tory MP that has voted against he has just kicked out , is that right ? Can he do that ?.

So to me it seems it’s one person calling the shots ? If you don’t agree with that one person , you’re gone - that to me doesn’t appear to be a democrat government we have that seems to be more along the lines of a dictatorship surely ? And even more so a dictator that hasn’t been voted in by the public he is supposed to serve - and to clarify that’s the whole public and not just a certain percentage

Christ we really are a mess - and people still want these to look after our countries needs if we leave the EU ? Good luck

 

[Parsaregood]

View attachment 28163View attachment 28165

Do these two people really lead our country right now 🤦‍♂️ I’m not sure what’s worse for us - Johnson and the idiot lounging around , Corbyn and his cronies , Farage and his lot or the EU - not looking good is it , up the proverbial creek without paddle

I am confused on something - over the last year is it they have had countless votes about many things to do with Brexit and there have been Tory MP’s that have voted against the PM as is their right surely , some of those people are now in the cabinet or senior positions. Johnson appears to have been defeated in every vote he has ( not sure what that says about him ) and any Tory MP that has voted against he has just kicked out , is that right ? Can he do that ?.

So to me it seems it’s one person calling the shots ? If you don’t agree with that one person , you’re gone - that to me doesn’t appear to be a democrat government we have that seems to be more along the lines of a dictatorship surely ? And even more so a dictator that hasn’t been voted in by the public he is supposed to serve - and to clarify that’s the whole public and not just a certain percentage

Christ we really are a mess - and people still want these to look after our countries needs if we leave the EU ? Good luck

First off the vote on Tuesday night was made a confidence matter and every conservative MP before voting knew the consequence of voting against a government in a matter of confidence. Also do you not agree this is the reason we need a general election ? A majority can then be restored and we can actually get on with leaving. The opposition are a hopelessly bunch, they dont actually agree on anything on a deeper level than delay brexit for now. The opposition dont agree on brexit. Have they any idea the cost of delaying ? Not only in monetary terms but also the uncertainty is damaging. Conservative have a clear position. The other parties do not. Jacob Rees-mogg often sits like this in debates if the house is half empty, cant really see the problem. Corbyn and his front benches would send even the most staunch of parliamentarians to sleep.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

First off the vote on Tuesday night was made a confidence matter and every conservative MP before voting knew the consequence of voting against a government in a matter of confidence. Also do you not agree this is the reason we need a general election ? A majority can then be restored and we can actually get on with leaving. The opposition are a hopelessly bunch, they dont actually agree on anything on a deeper level than delay brexit for now. The opposition dont agree on brexit. Have they any idea the cost of delaying ? Not only in monetary terms but also the uncertainty is damaging. Conservative have a clear position. The other parties do not. Jacob Rees-mogg often sits like this in debates if the house is half empty, cant really see the problem. Corbyn and his front benches would send even the most staunch of parliamentarians to sleep.

Every MP should be able to vote freely how they wish - its a democratic society , that’s been thrown around for a while now so it must apply to the people that are supposed to be leading this country - throwing people out because they show free to will is not democratic. It’s up to the “leader” to re-evaluate things to get his party together , it can’t be and never should be “my way or the high way” - that’s not the society we live in - that’s dictatorship.

And do people really think the Tory’s under the leadership are going actually get a clear majority on their own? People do understand that the country is split right down the middle - there is every chance the majority of the country don’t want Brexit now , every chance , and are people really going to vote for Johnson to lead the country ? He is no better than Corbyn

They are both an embarrassment to our country and it just shows what a pathetic state our politics is in right now

All this because the Tory government didn’t think clearly enough when they went about this referendum- congrats they have screwed the country and put a massive divide in it that won’t heal

 

[Parsaregood]

Every MP should be able to vote freely how they wish - its a democratic society , that’s been thrown around for a while now so it must apply to the people that are supposed to be leading this country - throwing people out because they show free to will is not democratic. It’s up to the “leader” to re-evaluate things to get his party together , it can’t be and never should be “my way or the high way” - that’s not the society we live in - that’s dictatorship.

And do people really think the Tory’s under the leadership are going actually get a clear majority on their own? People do understand that the country is split right down the middle - there is every chance the majority of the country don’t want Brexit now , every chance , and are people really going to vote for Johnson to lead the country ? He is no better than Corbyn

They are both an embarrassment to our country and it just shows what a pathetic state our politics is in right now

All this because the Tory government didn’t think clearly enough when they went about this referendum- congrats they have screwed the country and put a massive divide in it that won’t heal

If you wish to stand with your own views only then you should stand as an independent to be elected. If you are a member of a party you have a responsibility. The government is quite right to get rid of a minority within their ranks who vote against them in a matter of confidence.
The polls actually suggest an even larger number of people want to leave now with 75% of those who voted leave happy to accept a clean break. The conservatives and the brexit party can strategically ally themselves and get a clear majority and deliver the clear mandate of the people.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You cannot remove Corbyn from this current situation. I explained he has been insisting on an election to sort the Brexit impasse but when given the ooppertunity he decides its not the time. You couldn't make it up. 🙄

I only see Boris being able to get a better deal if he gets the support of parliament. The cornerstone of this is the referendum result where you and I voted to leave and due to the shinanigans of remainer MPs this is being thwarted.

We are discussing the PM, please explain how/why you or anyone believe that suddenly after nearly 3 years he can get a deal that his party failed to get.
Why should the rest of Parliament trust him, his own Party don’t.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Until I see the deal I can't answer that; if he comes back with a deal like Theresa May's, I'll be more than happy for people to vote against him, if he comes back with a decent one then I'll be furious if they vote against him. In the latter circumstance I'll be happy for him to sack them.

As regards the liar tag, every damn one of them do that and I have far greater concerns about Corbyn & Abbott than I do about Johnson. And failing to support May's deal was doing the country a service.

He’s not giving Parliament a chance though, why couldn’t he cancel the summer recess or the Party conferences to show his determination to get a job done, we’ve waited 2 years for a Queen’s speech, why couldn’t it of waited another 2 weeks until November.
It’s ok saying no ifs or buts, business’s are not ready, what is this magic bullet he has?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Not sure about how the Torys will stand, Lib Dems are the only real remain vote at the minute, but who would vote for the uni fees liars? Labour, I listen to discussion about politics most days and I still have absolutely no idea what their stance is, they are an embarrassment of an opposition party with no real leadership.
Take your pick out of that lot lol

England only reply.
Like many on here seem to forget that many folk in Scotland have voted remain and that they will return more SNP MP'S than the Lib Dems
Combined they will probably return over 100 MP'S in the next election.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If you wish to stand with your own views only then you should stand as an independent to be elected. If you are a member of a party you have a responsibility. The government is quite right to get rid of a minority within their ranks who vote against them in a matter of confidence.

Yet over the last year many people have voted different to the party line or one persons line including people in the cabinet yet they didn’t get thrown out? The vote wasn’t about “confidence” it was about a bill - simple as that. Boris Johnson is acting like a dictator

The polls actually suggest an even larger number of people want to leave now with 75% of those who voted leave happy to accept a clean break. The conservatives and the brexit party can strategically ally themselves and get a clear majority and deliver the clear mandate of the people.

I don’t recall being asked what my choice would be now - polls have shown over the last number of years to be a waste and inaccurate.

I saw one headline that said one poll said 61% would back remain ?! Which do we believe

And 75% out of how many people ?

And right now no one knows what the “clear mandate” of the people is

3 years ago there was a vote and 52% of the people that turned up voted to leave - that’s a clear mandate of the people who voted 3 years ago - as I said there is every chance that mandate may well have changed when people look at the state of our political parties and their incompetence to lead us

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If you wish to stand with your own views only then you should stand as an independent to be elected. If you are a member of a party you have a responsibility. The government is quite right to get rid of a minority within their ranks who vote against them in a matter of confidence.
The polls actually suggest an even larger number of people want to leave now with 75% of those who voted leave happy to accept a clean break. The conservatives and the brexit party can strategically ally themselves and get a clear majority and deliver the clear mandate of the people.

So you agree it’s the tories fault then!
Teresa May had a majority in Parliament, her fellow tories failed to vote for her deal, if they’d of done what you say above should of happened, we’d be out, we’d have a deal.
If she’d of got rid of those voting against her the current Cabinet would not exist.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

Don't you all think this is all a MASSIVE ruse being played out by BJ the Bear? He didn't seem bothered about it all and must know how this was all going to play out and seemed to me to just be ploughing on regardless because he knows what he is going to do about it all. Also Rees Mogg lounging around on the benches. Doing his utmost, successfully, to enrage everyone. Neither seem harsed about everything, which indicated to me, they know EXACTLY what they are doing......I hope.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

2nd referendum-people’s vote.

Call a GE and let the people vote. Oh it’s gone very quiet on that one this week.

Been just the opposite hasn’t Bri, the PM has united the opposition, something no one else has managed to do.
Let’s see how quick he calls for a GE if the EU extend the deadline.

 

[Hobbit]

Been just the opposite hasn’t Bri, the PM has united the opposition, something no one else has managed to do.
Let’s see how quick he calls for a GE if the EU extend the deadline.

If you look at past votes, on all sorts of issues, all the opposition parties usually vote against a government.

There been a long running campaign about a 2nd ref/people's vote. A GE now, scheduled for Oct 13th, would have given the people the very thing the opposition parties/past PM's, have been asking for. It would have also left time for an incoming PM to go to the EU and ask for an extension, if needed.

Parliament is partaking in the never-ending round of bash each other, with the actual issue being secondary. Its win the argument at all costs, irrespective of the rights or wrongs.

 

[Parsaregood]

Is this the first opposition in history which has refused the offer of a general election? Says everything really

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If you look at past votes, on all sorts of issues, all the opposition parties usually vote against a government.

There been a long running campaign about a 2nd ref/people's vote. A GE now, scheduled for Oct 13th, would have given the people the very thing the opposition parties/past PM's, have been asking for. It would have also left time for an incoming PM to go to the EU and ask for an extension, if needed.

Parliament is partaking in the never-ending round of bash each other, with the actual issue being secondary. Its win the argument at all costs, irrespective of the rights or wrongs.

I don’t think it would give time Bri, he’s playing games, Parliament want No Deal off the table, his actions since becoming PM have caused this. Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, etc, all singing from the 1 song sheet, either he’s incredibly stupid or brilliant, my money ain’t on brilliant.