Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[harpo_72]

Think the message was straight to the point, more people want a planned exit if there is going to be one, even the remainers.
Boris is just making it up as he goes along, his behaviour last night was childish. To think he would call an election after the leave date .. who would accept that ? He also had cheesed off most with his prorogue.
Also the Europeans have called his bluff on the back stop, giving him a 30 day opportunity to present a workable solution. He will try and blame them but in the end he is tasked with delivering it.

Any way enough said, this is all rather predictable. Just pop out of the trench and walk towards the machine guns.

 

[harpo_72]

The EU said they are not renegotiating.

Exactly !

 

[SocketRocket]

The EU said they are not renegotiating.

And why should they. I have said before it's like a Union Convenor going to the Management in a pay dispute saying "We want a substantial wage increase but before we start negotiating I am informing you we will not take any industrial action"

 

[harpo_72]

Do you know, I think Boris never did his own home work at school... dunno just get the impression he talks a lot but does little

 

[Parsaregood]

Think the message was straight to the point, more people want a planned exit if there is going to be one, even the remainers.
Boris is just making it up as he goes along, his behaviour last night was childish. To think he would call an election after the leave date .. who would accept that ? He also had cheesed off most with his prorogue.
Also the Europeans have called his bluff on the back stop, giving him a 30 day opportunity to present a workable solution. He will try and blame them but in the end he is tasked with delivering it.

Any way enough said, this is all rather predictable. Just pop out of the trench and walk towards the machine guns.

The election date if proposed in a bill would be the 15th October, I've never heard Boris Johnson say this. Quote your source ? At the end of the day the referendum was a simple vote leave or remain, we voted to leave. We cannot stay in a perpetual motion of limbo. We will have to leave. For those who wish to remain, they are quite entitled to argue for this but first we must leave and the argument remainers wish to put forward can be made. The result of the biggest political vote in Britain's history must be implemented, no if's but's or maybe's.

 

[clubchamp98]

Think the message was straight to the point, more people want a planned exit if there is going to be one, even the remainers.
Boris is just making it up as he goes along, his behaviour last night was childish. To think he would call an election after the leave date .. who would accept that ? He also had cheesed off most with his prorogue.
Also the Europeans have called his bluff on the back stop, giving him a 30 day opportunity to present a workable solution. He will try and blame them but in the end he is tasked with delivering it.

Any way enough said, this is all rather predictable. Just pop out of the trench and walk towards the machine guns.

If you are in negotiations with someone who’s business is in turmoil why would you help them?
The EU are just sitting back and laughing at us.
We are ruled by laws from when Henry v111 was on the throne and lots even older.
It’s a disgraceful shambles and from the outside the rest of the world will be thinking what’s going on.

The Irish border is 50% the EUs responsibility though I would have thought!

 

[harpo_72]

That’s why they have to agree Boris’ proposal as he has not accepted theirs

 

[clubchamp98]

And why should they. I have said before it's like a Union Convenor going to the Management in a pay dispute saying "We want a substantial wage increase but before we start negotiating I am informing you we will not take any industrial action"

Totally agree .
But it’s the trade union party that wants this removed from the table, that’s what I can’t get my head round.

 

[harpo_72]

That bill wasn’t proposed and the general election was not called for ... until the date is locked down.

The election date if proposed in a bill would be the 15th October, I've never heard Boris Johnson say this. Quote your source ? At the end of the day the referendum was a simple vote leave or remain, we voted to leave. We cannot stay in a perpetual motion of limbo. We will have to leave. For those who wish to remain, they are quite entitled to argue for this but first we must leave and the argument remainers wish to put forward can be made. The result of the biggest political vote in Britain's history must be implemented, no if's but's or maybe's.

 

[clubchamp98]

That’s why they have to agree Boris’ proposal as he has not accepted theirs

That’s the rub .
It’s not Teresa’s or Boris proposals it’s the UK governments proposals.
The EU are dealing with the government not individuals.
They have just lit the blue paper and are sitting back waiting for the explosion!

 

[woody69]

🤣🤣🤣
No its not.

The Conservatives were the ones with a majority. The conservatives were the ones who had an internal schism over Europe, they decided to put the health of their party above that of the country, and solve it by organising a referendum. The Conservatives (with their majority) set up the referendum. The conservative PM who arrogantly made this mistake then promptly resigned. The next conservative PM set so many red lines that she couldn’t get any meaningful concessions from the EU. That same conservative PM then called another election, again arrogantly thinking she would get enough of a majority to force through a hard Brexit. That Conservative PM then lost her majority, and decided to try and force it through anyway despite clearly having no mandate for it. The conservative ERG voted down their own prime ministers bill because it wasn’t a hard enough Brexit. The conservative ERG even held a vote of no confidence in the PM to try and force her out and install their own man. The conservatives then voted in this mop haired clown that’s trying once again to force something damaging though parliament to which there is no mandate. And once again conservative MPs rebelled against their own PM.

I have plenty of criticisms of the Labour leadership’s Brexit strategy since 2016, they’ve tried pleasing everyone and sat on the fence, they couldn’t have done much of anything to stop the Tories making the mess of Brexit that they have done. Labour MPs were voted in on a mandate of a soft Brexit (in their 2017 manifesto) its not up to them to prop the Tory version of Brexit up and get it through Parliament, just because May and now Johnson say that their Brexit is the only one that respects the referendum.

As for the SNP and the Lib Dem’s, well they’ve been very clear that they don’t want to leave at all. Again, it’s not up to them to betray those who voted them into parliament by voting for a Tory hard Brexit.

At the end of the day, the Tories are the party in government, they have been from the very beginning of this debacle.

This is very clearly their mess, they should be made to own it.

 

[Parsaregood]

That bill wasn’t proposed and the general election was not called for ... until the date is locked down.

Boris Johnson sets the date before parliament vote on it, I'm not sure he would blatantly lie in front of millions of people. He and the conservatives would be done for good in that case. Nobody would do that unless mentally unstable

 

[harpo_72]

Boris Johnson sets the date before parliament vote on it, I'm not sure he would blatantly lie in front of millions of people. He and the conservatives would be done for good in that case. Nobody would do that unless mentally unstable

It’s not like he has lied before .. ever.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The Conservatives were the ones with a majority. The conservatives were the ones who had an internal schism over Europe, they decided to put the health of their party above that of the country, and solve it by organising a referendum. The Conservatives (with their majority) set up the referendum. The conservative PM who arrogantly made this mistake then promptly resigned. The next conservative PM set so many red lines that she couldn’t get any meaningful concessions from the EU. That same conservative PM then called another election, again arrogantly thinking she would get enough of a majority to force through a hard Brexit. That Conservative PM then lost her majority, and decided to try and force it through anyway despite clearly having no mandate for it. The conservative ERG voted down their own prime ministers bill because it wasn’t a hard enough Brexit. The conservative ERG even held a vote of no confidence in the PM to try and force her out and install their own man. The conservatives then voted in this mop haired clown that’s trying once again to force something damaging though parliament to which there is no mandate. And once again conservative MPs rebelled against their own PM.

I have plenty of criticisms of the Labour leadership’s Brexit strategy since 2016, they’ve tried pleasing everyone and sat on the fence, they couldn’t have done much of anything to stop the Tories making the mess of Brexit that they have done. Labour MPs were voted in on a mandate of a soft Brexit (in their 2017 manifesto) its not up to them to prop the Tory version of Brexit up and get it through Parliament, just because May and now Johnson say that their Brexit is the only one that respects the referendum.

As for the SNP and the Lib Dem’s, well they’ve been very clear that they don’t want to leave at all. Again, it’s not up to them to betray those who voted them into parliament by voting for a Tory hard Brexit.

At the end of the day, the Tories are the party in government, they have been from the very beginning of this debacle.

This is very clearly their mess, they should be made to own it.

Spot on.
Just to save anyone else posting the normal counter arguments, remember:
Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and Dianne Abbott can’t count.

Therefore it’s all Labour’s fault.

 

[SocketRocket]

The Conservatives were the ones with a majority. The conservatives were the ones who had an internal schism over Europe, they decided to put the health of their party above that of the country, and solve it by organising a referendum. The Conservatives (with their majority) set up the referendum. The conservative PM who arrogantly made this mistake then promptly resigned. The next conservative PM set so many red lines that she couldn’t get any meaningful concessions from the EU. That same conservative PM then called another election, again arrogantly thinking she would get enough of a majority to force through a hard Brexit. That Conservative PM then lost her majority, and decided to try and force it through anyway despite clearly having no mandate for it. The conservative ERG voted down their own prime ministers bill because it wasn’t a hard enough Brexit. The conservative ERG even held a vote of no confidence in the PM to try and force her out and install their own man. The conservatives then voted in this mop haired clown that’s trying once again to force something damaging though parliament to which there is no mandate. And once again conservative MPs rebelled against their own PM.

I have plenty of criticisms of the Labour leadership’s Brexit strategy since 2016, they’ve tried pleasing everyone and sat on the fence, they couldn’t have done much of anything to stop the Tories making the mess of Brexit that they have done. Labour MPs were voted in on a mandate of a soft Brexit (in their 2017 manifesto) its not up to them to prop the Tory version of Brexit up and get it through Parliament, just because May and now Johnson say that their Brexit is the only one that respects the referendum.

As for the SNP and the Lib Dem’s, well they’ve been very clear that they don’t want to leave at all. Again, it’s not up to them to betray those who voted them into parliament by voting for a Tory hard Brexit.

At the end of the day, the Tories are the party in government, they have been from the very beginning of this debacle.

This is very clearly their mess, they should be made to own it.

No they didnt

 

[Jamesbrown]

I voted to Leave, I never ever voted to Leave with No Deal, the Leave campaign also said we’d have a deal.

1 Party has dealt with the EU, they have never been joined up since TM started the negotiations.

If Parliament had voted for her deal the same way they defeated vote of no confidence we’d be out.

Yes it may of been a bad deal, but we’d be out.

David Cameron said we would leave on WTO terms if we didn’t have a deal.
Did you not know what you was voting for?

 

[woody69]

No they didnt

Odd that you do nothing but accuse others of being "trolls", but add very little to the debate yourself.

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain

 

[Parsaregood]

It’s not like he has lied before .. ever.

I think what you are inciting might happen is extremely far-fetched, although parliament will decide of that there is no doubt. I think the main reason the opposition is against an election is simply because it would not win and even if labour + a resurgent lib dem outfit could squeeze a 1 or 2 majority, there would be no common ground in the longer term strategy for brexit with the lib dems wanting to scrap it altogether

 

[SocketRocket]

I

Odd that you do nothing but accuse others of being "trolls", but add very little to the debate yourself.

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain

I add a great deal to the debate but notice a number of posters use these silly one liners all the time. Thought I would give it a try. Rubbish isnt it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

David Cameron said we would leave on WTO terms if we didn’t have a deal.
Did you not know what you was voting for?

Yes I did, I trusted that Leave would win and we’d leave with a deal.
Every time Cameron opened his mouth he was dismissed and accussed of “project fear” are you saying he was right all along?