Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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IanM said:
Bit like Tony Blair's declaration of only 5-10k coming from Poland then Doon? :rolleyes:

(edit, Maybe Diane did the estimate)
Click to expand...

That was then...…..now is a totally different story.
The UK is not seen as a desired destination now for EU workers, not felt welcome/falling £££££s/etc etc.
In the meantime our NHS, Armed Forces and agri work sections are seriously understaffed.
 
Anyone reason out why Farage has been a bit gobby re royals in Australia, knowing it'll get out and be reported? Some of it was on an Ozzie tv show and some to a private audience I believe.

Is it racism against Meghan?
Is it exasperation at all Monarchy or just Prince of Wales?
Why be unflattering about Queen Mother who is deceased?
Why take Harry to task for growing up a bit?
Was he just trying to appeal to Australians with a bit of Pommy bashing?

All seems a bit ill judged, knocking the Royals might appeal to some but rarely has mass appeal at UK wide level. I don't think there is a strong association between wishing to Leave EU and Republicanism, is there?

Even one or two of the pro Brexit redtops had articles about it.

Silly season for politicians?
Own goal for Farage?
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Do you not think that the right wing argument about changes to FoM, immigration and benefits has now been totally blown out of the water.
Along with the 72 million Turkish citizens de-camping to England, claiming benefits [whilst also taking our jobs :unsure:] free NHS services and opening barbers shops.
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No
 
maxfli65 said:
Anyone reason out why Farage has been a bit gobby re royals in Australia, knowing it'll get out and be reported? Some of it was on an Ozzie tv show and some to a private audience I believe.

Is it racism against Meghan?
Is it exasperation at all Monarchy or just Prince of Wales?
Why be unflattering about Queen Mother who is deceased?
Why take Harry to task for growing up a bit?
Was he just trying to appeal to Australians with a bit of Pommy bashing?

All seems a bit ill judged, knocking the Royals might appeal to some but rarely has mass appeal at UK wide level. I don't think there is a strong association between wishing to Leave EU and Republicanism, is there?

Even one or two of the pro Brexit redtops had articles about it.

Silly season for politicians?
Own goal for Farage?
Click to expand...

He's realising his core voters are drifting to the increasingly anti EU tory party so is reduced to saying any old garbage to keep himself in the news.

And I hear Australia is moving more to his type of politics, so he may be laying the ground work for a move over there soon, say some populist stuff that will get some approval, it's from his classic play book.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
That was then...…..now is a totally different story.
The UK is not seen as a desired destination now for EU workers, not felt welcome/falling £££££s/etc etc.
In the meantime our NHS, Armed Forces and agri work sections are seriously understaffed.
Click to expand...


This proves just how far detached from reality you really are. Delusional doesn’t even come close.
 
Watched a piece on YouTube recently which looked at the changing narrative around Brexit, and who changed that narrative. Lets just for a second take a step back from is Brexit good or bad - to be honest, thats been done to death on here countless times. The piece centred around who won and who lost, and how that result has been continually attacked.

A common theme since the result has been, "what Brexit have you voted for," and "you didn't vote for no deal," and "you didn't have all the facts back then." And the question in the background throughout was who has been asking the questions, Remainers or Leavers? Think about it, how many Leavers have been campaigning to change the result? How many have looked at all the new info, and said "we want another vote."

I'm not really interested in a big debate around those questions, and which group is behind them. Nor am I particularly interested in the various explanations about what is democracy, although I suppose I could ask is it Remainers or Leavers raising the question about democracy - again, that's been done to death too.

However, and I'm probably way off the mark, there is a growing sense of entitlement running through the UK. Once upon a time if someone lost a vote, they respected the result, sucked it up, got on with making the best of it. The "I lost but I want my way..." Really? Spoilt child?

And before anyone dismisses the piece because of the source, try and be intelligent about it. Yes its Douglas Carswell, who I have little time for, and Ron Liddle, both Brexiteers. Just take the questions posed at face value. Imagine you don't know the authors and try and take it from there.
 
Hobbit said:
Watched a piece on YouTube recently which looked at the changing narrative around Brexit, and who changed that narrative. Lets just for a second take a step back from is Brexit good or bad - to be honest, thats been done to death on here countless times. The piece centred around who won and who lost, and how that result has been continually attacked.

A common theme since the result has been, "what Brexit have you voted for," and "you didn't vote for no deal," and "you didn't have all the facts back then." And the question in the background throughout was who has been asking the questions, Remainers or Leavers? Think about it, how many Leavers have been campaigning to change the result? How many have looked at all the new info, and said "we want another vote."

I'm not really interested in a big debate around those questions, and which group is behind them. Nor am I particularly interested in the various explanations about what is democracy, although I suppose I could ask is it Remainers or Leavers raising the question about democracy - again, that's been done to death too.

However, and I'm probably way off the mark, there is a growing sense of entitlement running through the UK. Once upon a time if someone lost a vote, they respected the result, sucked it up, got on with making the best of it. The "I lost but I want my way..." Really? Spoilt child?

And before anyone dismisses the piece because of the source, try and be intelligent about it. Yes its Douglas Carswell, who I have little time for, and Ron Liddle, both Brexiteers. Just take the questions posed at face value. Imagine you don't know the authors and try and take it from there.
Click to expand...

Is this just back to the same old argument that the 48% should just shut up and not point out what they believe is the madness in a no deal Brexit?

I imagine in a general/local election people will still accept the results, and if they feel strongly enough will actively work to change the result in 4 or 5 years time. However it seems that people perceive the current situation as very different.

It's a bit different to whether Anna Soubry or Nick Palmer gets in, whether Labour Councillor Adams or Green Councillor James gets in. It's a bit more important than that and will define our politics, economy and it seems increasingly what we are as a nation for years to come. Politics seems no longer to be red V blue but leave V remain. So total deference to privately educated cabinet ministers who arguably could be said to have some personal power issues that may override governing in the best interests of the whole nation, seems to be less relevant to some.

And extrapolating that we are now a nation of spoilt brats who will refuse to accept any legally binding election from now on is reductive at best.
 
Last edited:
Hobbit said:
Watched a piece on YouTube recently which looked at the changing narrative around Brexit, and who changed that narrative. Lets just for a second take a step back from is Brexit good or bad - to be honest, thats been done to death on here countless times. The piece centred around who won and who lost, and how that result has been continually attacked.

A common theme since the result has been, "what Brexit have you voted for," and "you didn't vote for no deal," and "you didn't have all the facts back then." And the question in the background throughout was who has been asking the questions, Remainers or Leavers? Think about it, how many Leavers have been campaigning to change the result? How many have looked at all the new info, and said "we want another vote."

I'm not really interested in a big debate around those questions, and which group is behind them. Nor am I particularly interested in the various explanations about what is democracy, although I suppose I could ask is it Remainers or Leavers raising the question about democracy - again, that's been done to death too.

However, and I'm probably way off the mark, there is a growing sense of entitlement running through the UK. Once upon a time if someone lost a vote, they respected the result, sucked it up, got on with making the best of it. The "I lost but I want my way..." Really? Spoilt child?

And before anyone dismisses the piece because of the source, try and be intelligent about it. Yes its Douglas Carswell, who I have little time for, and Ron Liddle, both Brexiteers. Just take the questions posed at face value. Imagine you don't know the authors and try and take it from there.
Click to expand...
What Brexit we voted for is an after thought that has been really messed up big time by politicians.
The one certainly we didn’t vote for was Remain
 
Doon frae Troon said:
That was then...…..now is a totally different story.
The UK is not seen as a desired destination now for EU workers, not felt welcome/falling £££££s/etc etc.
Click to expand...


Again (some respect) rubbish! Over 600k people moved here in 2018. Well according to the ONS anyway. Trend is slowing though.... but I'd venture that is as a result of no new EU joiners recerntly .....

BBC Business News on good form again. Big slow down in Germany is caused my World Wide factors, in next breath "better UK figures than Germany" are "despite Brexit!"

Those "educational grants" sure buy a lot of leverage! :-)
 
I agree the result was narrow (it was always going to be simply based on statistical theory and a binary choice set out across millions of voters) - but there was a result.

What annoys me is the MPs on all sides of the HoC would agreed to set the process in motion. They gave a commitment to follow the result and but renege on that collective commitment. Not only have they not supported the result but we also we have senior MPs (Hammond is one of the worst and a prime example) who are deliberately undermining negotiations and frustrating ANY attempt to move forward.
 
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