Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Doon frae Troon]

So Green MP Caroline Lucas wants an all-female "government of national unity".
Among the women she has invited to join her are Labour's shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry, Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon and Conservative MP Justine Greening.
The others are: Heidi Allen, Kirsty Blackman, Yvette Cooper, Sylvia Hermon, Liz Saville Roberts and Anna Soubry.
She has asked to meet the 10 women in the coming days.

I notice Ababcus isn't one of the names being touted

Aye, what we need is more sensible women like Truss and McVey.

 

[spongebob59]

And the greens have how many MP's ???
1.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

If he doesn't deliver brexit he may well be right...

That was my point.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If only there had been a woman in charge of the whole process over the last 3 years, she would have delivered Brexit. Eeerrmmmmmmmmm. She has embarassed herself with this nonsense. Not sure why the media are giving her a platform, other than it is the silly season.

 

[spongebob59]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1160893915396026368

 

[Hacker Khan]

Swears a bit, makes some good points.

 

[SocketRocket]

Are they all Remainers? And if so why does Caroline Lucas think that the best way to unify the country is to exclude half the people because of their gender and all of those that were Leavers? I suspect that her version of national unity is cancelling Brexit and to hell with the consequences.

Sturgeons not even an MP.

 

[SocketRocket]

Swears a bit, makes some good points.

Good points, really! Same old biased claptrap to me

 

[robinthehood]

Good points, really! Same old biased claptrap to me

Oof, Jeez man come up with your own replies.

 

[chrisd]

I chuck this one in from time to time


The EU say that they would prefer us to stay in. We had the referendum following Cameron's disastrous attempt to get a better deal out of the EU whilst in. Why does the EU not negotiate a not leave deal that we can all live with and then have a 2nd referendum? I'm aware there are many leavers who would never want to stay in but I'm sure if areas of concern going back to the Cameron times were addressed like freedom of movement, immigration, benefits etc then many leavers would likely change their minds and we could (if legally possible) revoke Article 50.,the EU member countries certainly would be better off!

 

[spongebob59]

they were inflexible then, inflexible during the supposed negotiation and I suspect would be even further inflexible as they head towards greater federalism.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I chuck this one in from time to time


The EU say that they would prefer us to stay in. We had the referendum following Cameron's disastrous attempt to get a better deal out of the EU whilst in. Why does the EU not negotiate a not leave deal that we can all live with and then have a 2nd referendum? I'm aware there are many leavers who would never want to stay in but I'm sure if areas of concern going back to the Cameron times were addressed like freedom of movement, immigration, benefits etc then many leavers would likely change their minds and we could (if legally possible) revoke Article 50.,the EU member countries certainly would be better off!

It would take both the EU and UK to want to do that. And as we've seen, finding a deal both sides can live with whilst at the same time allowing the EU to protect the rest of the EU members and pacifying the increasingly anti EU cabinet seems more and more unlikely.

And I feel the debate now in the UK has mostly lost any semblance of logical thought. So if we tried to revisit the main issues and address them it would just get lost again in a shower of BS and lies on both sides.

 

[SocketRocket]

Oof, Jeez man come up with your own replies.

Goof! Jeez man, come up with your own replies 🙄

 

[robinthehood]

Goof! Jeez man, come up with your own replies 🙄

Oof
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don't make me quote your rip off responses 🤣😂🤣

 

[clubchamp98]

I chuck this one in from time to time


The EU say that they would prefer us to stay in. We had the referendum following Cameron's disastrous attempt to get a better deal out of the EU whilst in. Why does the EU not negotiate a not leave deal that we can all live with and then have a 2nd referendum? I'm aware there are many leavers who would never want to stay in but I'm sure if areas of concern going back to the Cameron times were addressed like freedom of movement, immigration, benefits etc then many leavers would likely change their minds and we could (if legally possible) revoke Article 50.,the EU member countries certainly would be better off!

The EU is a political project and they have blinkers on .
What through this whole farce have they really conceded in negotiations.
Nothing ,they told Cameron to do one ,and May was to weak.
Now we have Boris with his hard line, but there was never a middle ground they knew if they gave any concessions all the member states would want them.
So staying in and reforming dosnt work that’s been proven beyond dought.

Most of the net takers in the EU want us to stay as we subsidise them.
Net contributors want us to stay to keep their bills down.
But this is purely political and it’s to late to change now imo.
They both had a chance to sort it but it’s like two guys in a pub fight, after a while they forgot what they were arguing about.

 

[pendodave]

I chuck this one in from time to time


The EU say that they would prefer us to stay in. We had the referendum following Cameron's disastrous attempt to get a better deal out of the EU whilst in. Why does the EU not negotiate a not leave deal that we can all live with and then have a 2nd referendum? I'm aware there are many leavers who would never want to stay in but I'm sure if areas of concern going back to the Cameron times were addressed like freedom of movement, immigration, benefits etc then many leavers would likely change their minds and we could (if legally possible) revoke Article 50.,the EU member countries certainly would be better off!

Most of the things that people didn't like about the EU were entirely within the power of our own politicians to manage much better than they did. As we have since discovered, our lot are mostly incompetent and answer to a number of vested interests which 'own' them. I think that will continue to be the case in either this suggested scenario or the current ****show.

 

[pendodave]

On reflection, I wonder if the UK was always structurally unsuited to benefit from the EU.
As a rich country, we are always going to going to be a net contributer.
We don't have a big landmass like France and Germany, so don't benefit from the agricultural subsidy as much as them.
We don't have a large manufacturing base to benefit from the free market.
The way in which the welfare state operates seems incompatible with being in a free movement bloc of several 100m who have less generous/readily accessible systems.
We have a very high population density and many infrastructure/service delivery constraints which means any increase in population leads to much lower quality of life for existing residents.
We have weak trade unions which allow the government to get away with all allowing the availability of cheaper labor to undermine local terms and conditions.

I dunno, maybe these don't stand up to scrutiny, but I wonder if there's any realistic way for UK to get a deal that is workable.

 

[MegaSteve]

On reflection, I wonder if the UK was always structurally unsuited to benefit from the EU.
As a rich country, we are always going to going to be a net contributer.
We don't have a big landmass like France and Germany, so don't benefit from the agricultural subsidy as much as them.
We don't have a large manufacturing base to benefit from the free market.
The way in which the welfare state operates seems incompatible with being in a free movement bloc of several 100m who have less generous/readily accessible systems.
We have a very high population density and many infrastructure/service delivery constraints which means any increase in population leads to much lower quality of life for existing residents.
We have weak trade unions which allow the government to get away with all allowing the availability of cheaper labor to undermine local terms and conditions.

I dunno, maybe these don't stand up to scrutiny, but I wonder if there's any realistic way for UK to get a deal that is workable.

Erm... We had a "large manufacturing base" when we joined... Brussels encouraged and made it easy for big business to move manufacturing and production lines to the continent...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I chuck this one in from time to time


The EU say that they would prefer us to stay in. We had the referendum following Cameron's disastrous attempt to get a better deal out of the EU whilst in. Why does the EU not negotiate a not leave deal that we can all live with and then have a 2nd referendum? I'm aware there are many leavers who would never want to stay in but I'm sure if areas of concern going back to the Cameron times were addressed like freedom of movement, immigration, benefits etc then many leavers would likely change their minds and we could (if legally possible) revoke Article 50.,the EU member countries certainly would be better off!

Do you not think that the right wing argument about changes to FoM, immigration and benefits has now been totally blown out of the water.
Along with the 72 million Turkish citizens de-camping to England, claiming benefits [whilst also taking our jobs ] free NHS services and opening barbers shops.

 

[drdel]

Do you not think that the right wing argument about changes to FoM, immigration and benefits has now been totally blown out of the water.
Along with the 72 million Turkish citizens de-camping to England, claiming benefits [whilst also taking our jobs ] free NHS services and opening barbers shops.

No. Its going to get worse if not necessarily from Turkey.

Have you not read the EU's intended change to their policy that will not oblige the first country of arrival to be the point of entry and processing of illegal immigration.