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Deleted member 16999
Guest
Actually it rose from 2014 which says more people made the effort because of the Brexit shambles.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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Yep, I recognise that but couldn't ar5ed listing the likes of him, Gina Miller etc.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
But it's still spectacularly low compared to the other long term member states.
We've yet to hit 40% turnout on an EU average of 60+%.
Proof we don't care enough about Europe?
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
I agree with your point but that wasn’t what I responded to, he stated it was low as people are fed up with Brexit, we didn’t have the Brexit issue in 2014 when less people voted. This time more have voted when we do have the Brexit issue, which, imo, says more people got involved as they cared more.
Edit:
With Scotland and NI still to declare, it is currently the 2nd highest turnout in UK History for an EU Election.
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Deleted member 1147
Guest
Well, it’s taken nigh on 10,000 posts but, finally someone has posted something we can all agree with ðŸ‘
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
People will interpret the results mostly based on their existing preconceptions. The deluded are those that fail to see this and just peddle one narrative as if it's the only interpretation.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Looks like Labour are going for the hard Remain stance now. What a bunch of, desperate, power hungry @rsewipes.
They’ve lost my vote forever if it’s true.
They’ve lost my vote forever if it’s true.
robinthehood
Hacker
Clearly majority for remain , brexit cancelled soon and we can put this waste of time and effort behind us.
Taz
Journeyman Pro
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Grant85
Head Pro
re: Labour. Utterly rudderless in terms of what they have gone through over the past 6 to 12 months. Trying to sit on 2 sides of the Brexit divide is clearly a failed strategy.
Ultimately this is an issue that is so much at the forefront of all news / politics / down the pub discussions etc. that it is complete folly to not adopt a firmer position. You might get away without having a clear policy on something more minor and say 'we'll come to that when we've had a better look at the books' but on this, they simply didn't give people anything to vote for.
Corbyn in particular must simply wish that Brexit would have been delivered by now and could fall back down the agenda, so he could get onto his strong suit of public services / domestic policy / Tory bashing. But the game of politics doesn't work like that and probably Brexit is simply not going to fall down the agenda for quite a while.
Labour MPs are making points that in Labour held seats in the North of England - the Brexit party is getting 45%. Clearly a great number of Labour voters going hardline on Brexit. So they are extrapolating that as 'we can't be too pro-Remain'. But the results show that you clearly have to be one or the other.
There are enough Pro EU people to deliver a Labour majority (or certainly a non-Tory majority) and Labour must do more to build a coalition of these people. If that means losing seats in the North of England, then so be it. But all of a sudden, a load of other Tory held seats come into play.
Labour are trying to follow the people on this, not leading and making the case for anything in particular.
Ultimately this is an issue that is so much at the forefront of all news / politics / down the pub discussions etc. that it is complete folly to not adopt a firmer position. You might get away without having a clear policy on something more minor and say 'we'll come to that when we've had a better look at the books' but on this, they simply didn't give people anything to vote for.
Corbyn in particular must simply wish that Brexit would have been delivered by now and could fall back down the agenda, so he could get onto his strong suit of public services / domestic policy / Tory bashing. But the game of politics doesn't work like that and probably Brexit is simply not going to fall down the agenda for quite a while.
Labour MPs are making points that in Labour held seats in the North of England - the Brexit party is getting 45%. Clearly a great number of Labour voters going hardline on Brexit. So they are extrapolating that as 'we can't be too pro-Remain'. But the results show that you clearly have to be one or the other.
There are enough Pro EU people to deliver a Labour majority (or certainly a non-Tory majority) and Labour must do more to build a coalition of these people. If that means losing seats in the North of England, then so be it. But all of a sudden, a load of other Tory held seats come into play.
Labour are trying to follow the people on this, not leading and making the case for anything in particular.
jp5
Q-School Graduate
^ a well thought out post 
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Good post, your 1st paragraph could equally apply to the tories, trying to keep everyone happy and ending up alienating both sides.
Re the Labour Party, I’ve always been amazed that they can appeal to the Islington set (Thornberry types) and the traditional heartland of the North, they seem mutually exclusive to me!
2blue
Journeyman Pro
AND Honda can continue to be one of the biggest life-savers in the NE...…. as most of the footie teams have given up years ago...... Ah!! ... I forgot the Gateshead Centre.
drdel
Tour Rookie
According to the Diane Abbott School of Statistics
Grant85
Head Pro
I guess that's politics - try to appeal to as many people as you can and present things selectively in different places. Problem is that for decades, who else were the folk in Northern Cities going to vote for? Ultimately Labour took those votes for granted, often sending metropolitan types north in suits north to become their local MP (Tony Blair, Sedgefield; Ed Milliband, Donacaster etc.).
When Brexit was on offer, a lot of those people clearly thought 'why not, can't be any worse'. Didn't help that Corbyn wasn't exactly out in Blackburn and Hull high streets with his soap box, shouting the benefits of the EU to those folk.
Now, these people have pretty much left Labour. Of course, they aren't going to vote for the Tories - because 'Thatcher, mines, car factories etc'. But UKIP / BP / Farage, don't quite have that baggage.
Labour would be far better off leaving those folk to it. Maybe holding onto some of the seats, with good local candidates or 3 way marginals. And then adopt a far more 'Islington' approach. Appeal to the cosmopolitan cities of London, Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and university towns like Cambridge, Bristol, Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle etc.
Other problem with that strategy is that the populations of these 'metropolitan' constituencies has grown, but the number of seats on offer has stayed the same.
it's why the likes of Corbyn and Abbot could win 40,000 votes in their London constituencies. But it only took Ed Miliband 25,000 in Doncaster North.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Thanks for an educated post, you make some excellent points.
When I was young (no sniggering please) society was very well defined, you were very aware of your class, nowadays its not so clearly defined, the traditional working class has almost vanished, there is now a small traditional working class, a large upper working class or maybe lower middle class and a growing number of people who are somewnere between an underclass and working class (hope that makes sense). I went to a traditional Grammar school but I am not aware of anyone from my year going to University, most became apprentices. In these times voting intentions were fairly well defined, working class voted Labour and the middle classes were divided between Conservative and Liberal.
I like your point regarding where Labour should be pitching themselves. I can understand the proposition whereby Labour should make less effort in attracting their traditional homelands and focus on the Left wing Socialist Elete who have morphed from the middle classes thus creating a threat to the previous Tory strongholds.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
So the Tories will elect a new leader in July.
The house rises on 20 July and returns on 05 September.
Conference is 14 September until 09 October.
Brexit is 31 October.
...does anybody see a tiny problem with this schedule or is it a cunning plan to default to a WTO Brexit? 🤔
The house rises on 20 July and returns on 05 September.
Conference is 14 September until 09 October.
Brexit is 31 October.
...does anybody see a tiny problem with this schedule or is it a cunning plan to default to a WTO Brexit? 🤔
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
If it is a cunning plan it’s doomed to failure, Parliament has already voted against a No Deal Brexit and I’d suggest if they tried that there would be a motion tabled by the opposition parties to revoke Art 50.
Plus it really wouldn’t be a good start for a leader going against some of their own MP’s.
ger147
Tour Winner
Two potential issues with the A50 motion idea:
1) Motions are not legally binding on the government i.e. they could simply ignore the result. It would need to be a change to current legislation.
2) The motion or attempt to change current legislation may not win, plenty of leavers on the Labour benches.
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