Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Tashyboy]

...and Macron has stopped us from leaving?

I think the one like from Doon proves a point 👍

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I think the one like from Doon proves a point 👍

..and we are still awaiting clarification.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

No, she was politically obliged to trigger A50 as she was a remain voter, she did everything she could to make sure no one could accuse her of trying to slow things down or not do enough to progress Brexit.

Ultimately she did this without a plan, or certainly not one she was in control of. She then made the glaring error of holding another election (during the A50 2 year period) and failed to win a mandate for anything.

She will be remembered as a complete failure of a PM and Conservative leader, has left both party and country in a far worse position. Her legacy may be getting dressed up as a patriotic and tearful miscalculation today, but I'm sure it will look a lot worse on Monday when people survey the wreckage of the European results, from a Tory point of view at least.

In terms of your No Deal rallying cry. If you think this is a serious option then you are even more daft than the retiring PM. To her credit, at least this is a road she realised was not one that any sane person could go down.
Those calling for No Deal don't have a clue and the EU know any person in a position of power who makes such noises are bluffing.

Those calling for no deal actually DO have a clue. The EU needs us more than we need them. Research your facts on exports, imports, financial contributions etc.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I think the one like from Doon proves a point 👍

What, that you’re posting crap because you’re pissed?
Probably!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Those calling for no deal actually DO have a clue. The EU needs us more than we need them. Research your facts on exports, imports, financial contributions etc.

I thought there was zero chance of no deal now with the votes of the HoC etc ? Or have I just lost track of what’s happening.

Seems to me it’s either the deal or another referendum or just cancel ? Either way just looks a complete mess and a change of PM won’t change a thing.

 

[Taz]

Back o n planet EU......

 

[Tashyboy]

What, that you’re posting crap because you’re pissed?
Probably!

What, that you’re posting crap because you’re pissed?
Probably!

What, that you’re posting crap because you’re pissed?
Probably!

looking after grandkids and alcohol don't mix. Don't look at the last post 9845 though James coz that don't fit your remit that it's all to do with the U.K.

 

[Fade and Die]

I'll take this one.

Leave won because Leave could be all things to all men / women. There was no plan or picture of what Leave would look like. No idea of what we would negotiate from the EU. No prospectus about what our priorities would even be in said negotiation.

Ultimately, had such a detailed plan been put in place - I'm fairly certain that at least (but probably a lot more) the required 635,000 would have voted differently.

For example, if it had been made explicitly clear prior to the referendum that you can't get out of Free Movement without casting NI adrift... would leave have won?
If it had been made clear that upon leaving the UK will remain in a customs union with the EU... would leave have won?
If it had been made clear that leaving the EU means a No Deal Brexit and WTO terms... would leave have won?

All of these are realistic scenarios that could still play out, and yet people are quite happy to crow about the democratic mandate of 17m. Only 635,000 of whom would have to have been put off by the eventual thing that happens for the mandate to crumble into dust. Remember 3 million EU citizens living, working and paying tax here were not allowed to vote. And then we are in a situation where a majority do not want what has happened, and that is not going to be a pleasant situation to govern / do business / trade with. As the whole thing will be on a knife edge until the next election, the next referendum, the next change in the lay of the land.

The only way Brexit can succeed is if there is a clear appetite for it for a clear and sustained majority of the population.

If if if if (my auntie had bollocks?) thanks for the stereotype remainer post, telling us poor chumps why we voted the way we did. 👍
You, and Cameron and May are hopelessly misreading the mood of the nation, and as for the highlighted bit, I think you are going to get your answer in spades by Sunday Night.

 

[Foxholer]

Isn't that though why we are in this horrendous mess?
Rather than doing whats best for "them" and their political dogma and mantra, how about whats doing whats best for the country?

ps...I have no knowledge of what "IYO" means

I'm pretty certain that's exactly what they believe they are doing!

ps..Have a think. It's not too far different from IMO!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

looking after grandkids and alcohol don't mix. Don't look at the last post 9845 though James coz that don't fit your remit that it's all to do with the U.K.

Put the bottle down Tashy, you’re making no sense at all.

 

[Tashyboy]

Ah, so Macron and the rest of the EU should just give us everything we want at their expense, or be held to account for this country's woes?

Is that your suggestion, coz it wasn't mine or anyone else's on here.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Those calling for no deal actually DO have a clue. The EU needs us more than we need them. Research your facts on exports, imports, financial contributions etc.

But we never voted for No Deal.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Those calling for no deal actually DO have a clue. The EU needs us more than we need them. Research your facts on exports, imports, financial contributions etc.

Taking that off the table as a negotiating tool handed all the aces to the EU.

 

[Hobbit]

But we never voted for No Deal.

You keep repeating this Paul. The vote was in/out, and was very much reinforced by all the major politicians saying a vote to Leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union. The expectation was the EU would want a deal. The UK has the money that the EU desperately need. As for the balance of trade that so many Remainers say is skewed in favour of the EU as they can take the hit. What many don't look at is which countries within the EU the UK does the majority of its trade with.

The skewing that many use in defence of a warped view on the balance of trade seems to accurately miss the point that although there are 27 other countries in the EU, the vast majority of trade gets done with very few of that 27.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Lots of leave campaigners mentioned different potential outcomes, but when push comes to shove, the vote was stay or leave, with no details as to the method.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

But we never voted for No Deal.

Didnt we? I don't recall being told we would do a deal to leave ,if the vote went that way!
We voted to leave. When you leave somewhere that you are a member of, you leave.What golf club , or other club, have you left ,where you were expected to do a deal, or come to some arrangement that the club would give their approval to ,before you were allowed to leave.?
The majority voted to leave. The government should have made the arrangements to do that ,without involving Parliament (the referendum should override MP's wishes, because the voting rights have, in such an instance, been taken from that small body and given to the whole country, by definition.

But the government were not strong or honourable enough to do that, hence the mess that got created and which now ,like a glutinous spiders web, is strangling any meaningful action on Brexit.

The new leader needs to remind everyone that this country said "leave" and that is what it is going to do. End of.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Didnt we? I don't recall being told we would do a deal to leave ,if the vote went that way!
We voted to leave. When you leave somewhere that you are a member of, you leave.What golf club , or other club, have you left ,where you were expected to do a deal, or come to some arrangement that the club would give their approval to ,before you were allowed to leave.?
The majority voted to leave. The government should have made the arrangements to do that ,without involving Parliament (the referendum should override MP's wishes, because the voting rights have, in such an instance, been taken from that small body and given to the whole country, by definition.

But the government were not strong or honourable enough to do that, hence the mess that got created and which now ,like a glutinous spiders web, is strangling any meaningful action on Brexit.

The new leader needs to remind everyone that this country said "leave" and that is what it is going to do. End of.

But yet the Leave literature told us we would leave with a deal, never mentioned No Deal.

 

[robinthehood]

But yet the Leave literature told us we would leave with a deal, never mentioned No Deal.

View attachment 27385

Yes the easiest deal ever or some guff. But tbf the balot paper was in or out

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes the easiest deal ever or some guff. But tbf the balot paper was in or out

Yes I know, I voted Leave, but my vote was on the basis we’d leave in an orderley fashion once we were happy with “a” deal, not crash out overnight, stamping our feet with nothing in place.
If it’s to be a “No Deal” then we should be giving the EU the date we leave, not them dictating dates to us.

 

[2blue]

Yes the easiest deal ever or some guff. But tbf the balot paper was in or out

And how do you handle NI??