Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[robinthehood]

And how do you handle NI??

I pay it monthly

 

[Blue in Munich]

And how do you handle NI??

I pay it monthly

You only have to look at the replies to other threads about climate change to see people on here couldn't care less and would prefer to try and be smart arses .

Hoist by your own petard.

 

[chrisd]

All of the discussion as to what we thought we were going to do as a deal didn't, in my opinion, take into account that

The leave process would be cocked up by a remain Prime Minister

That a majority of MP'S would do their best to undermine the process either for personal gain and often against the wish of their constituents who the abrogated the decision making to.

That we would have an opposition party who would only use the issue to try and force a general election for their own ends and would make their own "red lines" unacceptable, as it would have meant leaving in name only but would mean that they didn't need to co-operate with the Government for the benefit of the Country

If anyone is in any doubt what we were voting for just search Utube for David Cameron's speech where, before the vote, he gave details of what leaving meant including the single market and the customs union - it left no doubt in my mind what I was voting for when I ambled down to vote!

 

[robinthehood]

Hoist by your own petard.

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Top marks for making the effort to stalk me in other threads and trying to be both smart And funny .

 

[robinthehood]

All of the discussion as to what we thought we were going to do as a deal didn't, in my opinion, take into account that

The leave process would be cocked up by a remain Prime Minister

That a majority of MP'S would do their best to undermine the process either for personal gain and often against the wish of their constituents who the abrogated the decision making to.

That we would have an opposition party who would only use the issue to try and force a general election for their own ends and would make their own "red lines" unacceptable, as it would have meant leaving in name only but would mean that they didn't need to co-operate with the Government for the benefit of the Country

If anyone is in any doubt what we were voting for just search Utube for David Cameron's speech where, before the vote, he gave details of what leaving meant including the single market and the customs union - it left no doubt in my mind what I was voting for when I ambled down to vote!

All good , but when you have the likes of fox ,raab, gove etc telling us all how easy it would be ,you can't be surprised that people believe them.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

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Top marks for making the effort to stalk me in other threads and trying to be both smart And funny .

You mean like you've done to me in the past?

 

[robinthehood]

You mean like you've done to me in the past?

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I don't even know who you are. But sure if you feel hard done by then crack on.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

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I don't even know who you are. But sure if you feel hard done by then crack on.

I don't but if you're going to give it out then expect to get it back.

 

[robinthehood]

I don't but if you're going to give it out then expect to get it back.

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Clearly you do , other wise why go to the effort eh.
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[Deleted Member 1156]

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Clearly you do , other wise why go to the effort eh.
🤣😅😆😂🤣😅😅😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣

No actually I'm really not interested in some random stranger on an Internet forum that thinks it's clever trying to wind other people up. I have more important things in my life.

 

[robinthehood]

No actually I'm really not interested in some random stranger on an Internet forum that thinks it's clever trying to wind other people up. I have more important things in my life.

But you made the effort this morning anyway though.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

All of the discussion as to what we thought we were going to do as a deal didn't, in my opinion, take into account that

The leave process would be cocked up by a remain Prime Minister

That a majority of MP'S would do their best to undermine the process either for personal gain and often against the wish of their constituents who the abrogated the decision making to.

That we would have an opposition party who would only use the issue to try and force a general election for their own ends and would make their own "red lines" unacceptable, as it would have meant leaving in name only but would mean that they didn't need to co-operate with the Government for the benefit of the Country

If anyone is in any doubt what we were voting for just search Utube for David Cameron's speech where, before the vote, he gave details of what leaving meant including the single market and the customs union - it left no doubt in my mind what I was voting for when I ambled down to vote!

I’m in no way changing sides and we can all, with hindsight, find examples of what was and wasn’t promised, using Camerons speech to support what it meant to vote no holds no water for me, that speech was in support of remain and at the time was ridiculed and dismissed as part of Project Fear, the problem now and then was that Remain and Leave meant so many different things to different people.

If it’s to be a No Deal, then announce it properly, decent timelines, not simply arguing up to a date in the calendar, be honest with the Public as to were the genuine concerns are, and, how we are going to plan for these concerns, look at TM’s feeble attempts for a No Deal scenario and the millions it has cost us in wasted contracts and Companies suing the Government.

There’s no way we can know if a No Deal would be bad for a day, week, month etc etc, but there are plans that can be discussed openly and honestly.

Furthermore, there should be legislation brought in that any MP, regardless of Party, would be prosecuted if they are found to be any making any financial gain from a No Deal scenario.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Furthermore, there should be legislation brought in that any MP, regardless of Party, would be prosecuted if they are found to be any making any financial gain from a No Deal scenario.

While I don't disagree with the concept of this, wouldn't we also need to bring in legislation for any MP that is making financial gains from Remaining?

EDIT - that is assuming that we don't actually leave.
EDIT 2 - it would also have to be a very carefully worded piece of legislation. For instance what about a case where an MP who has strongly campaigned for Remain turns out to have profited in the event of No Deal?

 

[chrisd]

I’m in no way changing sides and we can all, with hindsight, find examples of what was and wasn’t promised, using Camerons speech to support what it meant to vote no holds no water for me, that speech was in support of remain and at the time was ridiculed and dismissed as part of Project Fear, the problem now and then was that Remain and Leave meant so many different things to different people.

If it’s to be a No Deal, then announce it properly, decent timelines, not simply arguing up to a date in the calendar, be honest with the Public as to were the genuine concerns are, and, how we are going to plan for these concerns, look at TM’s feeble attempts for a No Deal scenario and the millions it has cost us in wasted contracts and Companies suing the Government.

There’s no way we can know if a No Deal would be bad for a day, week, month etc etc, but there are plans that can be discussed openly and honestly.

Furthermore, there should be legislation brought in that any MP, regardless of Party, would be prosecuted if they are found to be any making any financial gain from a No Deal scenario.

But Paul, my point is that Cameron stated clearly and unambiguously before the vote that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and the single market and, knowing that still led to an out vote. No one wants a "no deal" if a good deal is to be had but anyone who's ever negotiated a deal has always had to have a back stop eg the ability to walk away if the deal is not good enough, and only a fool would willingly say that their backstop is not for real during the discussions. I hope that the new PM will tear up Mrs May's deal and insist on a new and better deal or we really will go for no deal with no £39 billion payment

 

[ColchesterFC]

But Paul, my point is that Cameron stated clearly and unambiguously before the vote that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and the single market and, knowing that still led to an out vote. No one wants a "no deal" if a good deal is to be had but anyone who's ever negotiated a deal has always had to have a back stop eg the ability to walk away if the deal is not good enough, and only a fool would willingly say that their backstop is not for real during the discussions. I hope that the new PM will tear up Mrs May's deal and insist on a new and better deal or we really will go for no deal with no £39 billion payment

I'm not sure the part in bold would be a wise move, if we are looking to do new deals with other countries around the world. Much of that money will be what we owe for things like agreed funding for projects and future pension contributions etc. It wouldn't look good if we defaulted on those debts.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But Paul, my point is that Cameron stated clearly and unambiguously before the vote that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and the single market and, knowing that still led to an out vote. No one wants a "no deal" if a good deal is to be had but anyone who's ever negotiated a deal has always had to have a back stop eg the ability to walk away if the deal is not good enough, and only a fool would willingly say that their backstop is not for real during the discussions. I hope that the new PM will tear up Mrs May's deal and insist on a new and better deal or we really will go for no deal with no £39 billion payment

Cameron was giving his vision of what Leave meant to him, his was laughed at and shot down, now you’re suggesting we should accept he was right.
This is also the man who refused to let Government Departments prepare for a no vote and why ever since the EU have an upper hand.
I’ve got no issue with a Government using the “No Deal” scenario as a statement of fact if prepared properly, but imo, it’s used as a willy waving concept.
We need to stop, start again and Leave properly without the EU dictating it all.
Like these elections on thursday, why didn’t we simply say, “No, we’re taking part as we are leaving” end of.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Hoist by your own petard.

Come on, it's not that at all. It's just bringing a little good humour into a difficult subject. 😀

 

[Grant85]

A bit like the Scottish referendum. Only people living in Scotland got a vote. I know a lot of people who would have helped the SNP in England if they had got a vote.

So just like the EU citizens here.

Only people living in Scotland got a vote, regardless of where you were born or if you had full citizenship or not.

This was not the same criteria applied to EU referendum. Commonwalth citizens got a vote. Colleague of mine working here with an EU passport wasn't going to get the vote, but as he also has an SA passport he managed to apply to vote in the EU referendum.

The Scottish referendum was a full franchise of everyone from 16 and over. A far more fair and inclusive franchise. So in fact nothing like the Scottish referendum.

 

[Grant85]

And there's me thinking that's what voting was all about, it appears it about guessing, well if you don't agree with the result it is.

Another remainer telling me why I voted the way I did, got to love and admire the insite of the fella.

Specifically not telling you why you voted the way you did. Clearly there are a great many people who will vote leave under almsot any circumstances. But on a close result, you don't need to stretch the imagination to see that given how the Leave option has played out, with more information, a sizeable chunk of the 17 m would have thought about things differently.

And as I said, Brexit is simply not going to work without a good and clear majority in favour of it both at the polls and in their general view of things. The country will end up on a knife edge with the European question dominating politics and elections for the next decade or more.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Come on, it's not that at all. It's just bringing a little good humour into a difficult subject. 😀

Any comment on the the answer I gave you ref Leave Campaign?