Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[bladeplayer]

I know my posts seem ridiculous, thanks for not tearing into me, but if only things could be simple we'd get a lot more done instead of all this bluddy argueing all the time.

In theory id agree whole heartedly with u but it aint like that . Id prefer it ur way to be honest

I tend not to tear into peoples opinions no matter how much they differ from mine to be honest enough people doing that

 

[SocketRocket]

2) Net Immigration figures (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47400679 ) show that EU figures are down but immigration from outside EU has increased. So much for FOM baiters. Maybe we should withdraw from all blocks like WTO, NATO, etc and draw up the drawbridge.

You learn something new each day. I never realised the WTO & NATO were responsible for immigration.

 

[SocketRocket]

What does short term pain mean? I hear this oft quoted but with out any actual detail of what it means

Its the difference between someone standing on your foot and poking you in the eye with a pencil 👍

 

[jp5]

Whilst no deal is far from ideal, it is like a nuclear deterrent. As long as we have it we have bargaining power.

Except that in this case, the bargaining 'power' is threatening to nuke ourselves.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Except that in this case, the bargaining 'power' is threatening to nuke ourselves.

Yep, but with the wind from the north-west the EU will suffer the fallout as well.

 

[robinthehood]

Yep, but with the wind from the north-west the EU will suffer the fallout as well.

Great.

 

[SocketRocket]

Except that in this case, the bargaining 'power' is threatening to nuke ourselves.

Isnt that the case with Nuclear Deterrents. If you don't have them you are in danger of being walked over.

 

[Foxholer]

Exactly. We should have been allowed to negotiate a trade deal in tandem with the WA.
....

Possibly, but that wasn't (allowed to be) on the agenda for the WA. I'm not certain, but I believe 'future relationships' were part of the aspirational, non-binding part of the document(s) produced as a result of the 'negotiation'.

...So basically you are saying that FOM doesn’t apply to Canada because it’s so far away?
...

The clue to WHY it's irrelevant is in the (limited) name of the agreement - Free Trade - and the first word of one of the participants (European)! The EU has negotiated (and is negotiating) many FTAs. And that's all they are - nothing to do with anything else about the EU except Trade!

 

[drdel]

Ireland, for reasons that escape me, have decided to impound two very small fishing boats from NI. They claim these boats were fishing illegally in Irish water. Its in an area disputed by ROI and UK but where there has been a tacit longstanding informal agreement. The UK is not restricting ROI boats.

What a pointless act with a 'gunship'! Is there no grown ups in charge nowadays ?

 

[Sweep]

Possibly, but that wasn't (allowed to be) on the agenda for the WA. I'm not certain, but I believe 'future relationships' were part of the aspirational, non-binding part of the document(s) produced as a result of the 'negotiation'.

The clue to WHY it's irrelevant is in the (limited) name of the agreement - Free Trade - and the first word of one of the participants (European)! The EU has negotiated (and is negotiating) many FTAs. And that's all they are - nothing to do with anything else about the EU except Trade!

Ah yes! I remember the free trade agreement. That’s what we signed up for. Why can’t we just have one of those without all the other crap?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I am not sure anyone has suggested we should sign a bad deal.
Of course what I consider a bad deal may differ from your idea of a bad deal.
The issue is that Labour are backing a second referendum if TM doesn’t adopt THEIR idea of a good deal. Up until now what they wanted was not feasible or meant us leaving without leaving.
I imagine this is not what millions of Labour voters wanted when they voted to leave. The fact that Starmer wants the option to remain on a second referendum ballot will anger many in Labour heartlands. And rightly so.

And I don’t disagree, but the deal TM has currently was voted down, ie “the bad deal” if she gets no more movement are you suggesting we should accept it or walk away with No Deal.

If that’s the situation, and again I’d suggest it’s only a few MP’s who want that, we all lose.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ah yes! I remember the free trade agreement. That’s what we signed up for. Why can’t we just have one of those without all the other crap?

That's correct. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Agreed. Just what do people know now that they didn't know then, apart from our MP's should all be removed from office as they are all incompetent.

That everybody lied and nobody had an actual plan!

 

[SocketRocket]

And I don’t disagree, but the deal TM has currently was voted down, ie “the bad deal” if she gets no more movement are you suggesting we should accept it or walk away with No Deal.

If that’s the situation, and again I’d suggest it’s only a few MP’s who want that, we all lose.

Can you explain how Brexit can be concluded and the result of the referendum respected if no deal is not an option? Can we say to the EU we don't accept the current deal so please give us a better one, even though we are not prepared to do anything if you don't? Do you think we should have another referendum? Should we call an end to Article 50? Should we ask to extend article 50 and go through another period of parliament squabbling? Should we join EFTA?

If we take No-deal off the table I cannot see for the life of me how we square this circle without throwing democracy in the bin.

 

[SocketRocket]

That everybody lied and nobody had an actual plan!

Cameron should have had a plan, its the fault of the executive when the referendum was called and down to their blind faith that the public wouldnt have the balls to vote leave after their project fear 1. You can't blame back benchers.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Can you explain how Brexit can be concluded and the result of the referendum respected if no deal is not an option? Can we say to the EU we don't accept the current deal so please give us a better one, even though we are not prepared to do anything if you don't? Do you think we should have another referendum? Should we call an end to Article 50? Should we ask to extend article 50 and go through another period of parliament squabbling? Should we join EFTA?

If we take No-deal off the table I cannot see for the life of me how we square this circle without throwing democracy in the bin.

Is all that Labours fault, because it seems some would like to twist it that way.

 

[SocketRocket]

Is all that Labours fault, because it seems some would like to twist it that way.

Did I mention Labour? Its due to MPs of all parties.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Cameron should have had a plan, its the fault of the executive when the referendum was called and down to their blind faith that the public wouldnt have the balls to vote leave after their project fear 1. You can't blame back benchers.

I blame each and everyone of them, are they not meant to represent their constituents?
As soon as the result was known they should of all come together and formulate a plan, not bury their heads and wait 2 years!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Did I mention Labour?

No, but you answered my post which WAS in response to holding Labour to account.

 

[SocketRocket]

No, but you answered my post which WAS in response to holding Labour to account.

Sorry but I can see no mention of Labour in your post I quoted.