Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[drdel]

Yes they have. But speak to some of the officials in those countries - as I have done over the last 6 months - and there's a fair bit of resentment towards the EU over how they approached those negotiations, particularly from those countries who are classed as 'developing' or 'least developed countries' by the WTO. You'll hear the words 'bullying' and 'aggressive' used. Ultimately those countries haven't been able to turn down the amount of cash the EU has thrown at them.

Don't come on here with real experience: I have to endorse your experience. The EU is entirely different to the members. The member are seen as a mild irritant to be ignored or manipulated.

As a consequence the EU negotiators simply had to keep pushing back, they were never out to for making a deal. If the EU were interested in the future relationship they would not have refused to discuss trade agreements.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So what happens next

No one wants a No Deal in government so will they go back to the EU or will they go for a second referendum will Art 50 delayed by 6 months ?

And are people in the HOC using all this for their own gains instead of thinking about the UK ? Labour using it to try and get into government , Tory MP’s using it to try and get rid of May

Complete farce the lot of them

Listening to it on the radio on the way home and they are all a joke and an embarrassment - they have had two years and we have got nowhere. God help the country with any of these in charge if we leave we no deal

Thank god im getting an Irish Passport.

These people are playing games with peoples lives

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think Parliament across all parties have let the people of the UK down in the two years since the vote. We're in a huge mess and each seems to be looking after their own interests. As the song goes, "there may be trouble ahead"

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Very responsible and statesman-like tweet from Donald Tusk! And yet again further proof IMHO - and also from my experience of working with these EU officials - of why we'll be better off out.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

So what happens next

No one wants a No Deal in government so will they go back to the EU or will they go for a second referendum will Art 50 delayed by 6 months ?

And are people in the HOC using all this for their own gains instead of thinking about the UK ? Labour using it to try and get into government , Tory MP’s using it to try and get rid of May

Complete farce the lot of them

Listening to it on the radio on the way home and they are all a joke and an embarrassment - they have had two years and we have got nowhere. God help the country with any of these in charge if we leave we no deal

Thank god im getting an Irish Passport.

These people are playing games with peoples lives

I applied for my Irish PPS number today, equivalent to a national insurance number 😃

 

[ger147]

I applied for my Irish PPS number today, equivalent to a national insurance number 😃

How many pints of Guinness do you need to drink to qualify for an Irish PPS number?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Very responsible and statesman-like tweet from Donald Tusk! And yet again further proof IMHO - and also from my experience of working with these EU officials - of why we'll be better off out.

Was he not just asking the bleeding obvious.
The EU officials must be looking at the UK and wondering how the hell did that country ever build an Empire.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Can someone explain why a No Deal exit would be such a disaster for the UK? And can someone explain why a No Deal exit wouldn't actually be that big a deal? The Remain side of the debate seem to believe the former and many on the Leave side believe the latter. Now obviously both statements cannot be correct so is one of them right and the other wrong or is the truth somewhere in the middle? And if you could do it in simple terms (pretend your explaining to a 10 year old) that would be great.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Can someone explain why a No Deal exit would be such a disaster for the UK? And can someone explain why a No Deal exit wouldn't actually be that big a deal? The Remain side of the debate seem to believe the former and many on the Leave side believe the latter. Now obviously both statements cannot be correct so is one of them right and the other wrong or is the truth somewhere in the middle? And if you could do it in simple terms (pretend your explaining to a 10 year old) that would be great.

It's where the adults act like kids and screw everything up, stamping their feet and throwing their food around.

 

[ger147]

Can someone explain why a No Deal exit would be such a disaster for the UK? And can someone explain why a No Deal exit wouldn't actually be that big a deal? The Remain side of the debate seem to believe the former and many on the Leave side believe the latter. Now obviously both statements cannot be correct so is one of them right and the other wrong or is the truth somewhere in the middle? And if you could do it in simple terms (pretend your explaining to a 10 year old) that would be great.

The truth is somewhere in the middle i.e. some short term difficulties and additional costs until things settle down and some permanent changes to how some things work but on the whole everything would be sorted out quickly enough IMO and most things would remain largely the same in the medium/long term.

The above is all just my opinion so feel free to disagree but not interested in anyone who wants to pull it apart and challenge it word by word...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Can someone explain why a No Deal exit would be such a disaster for the UK? And can someone explain why a No Deal exit wouldn't actually be that big a deal? The Remain side of the debate seem to believe the former and many on the Leave side believe the latter. Now obviously both statements cannot be correct so is one of them right and the other wrong or is the truth somewhere in the middle? And if you could do it in simple terms (pretend your explaining to a 10 year old) that would be great.

As with anything truth closer to the middle - It’s prob a walk into the unknown

Having a guess it would mean

EU workers losing rights ?

Tariffs on goods going both ways

Customs delays by a possible considerable increase of time which could affect millions of people

Freedom of movement stops - the uk can stop anyone from EU entering if they wish

I think it wouldn’t have to pay the bill ?

Could we catch as much fish as we want ?

And we work under WTO rules - not sure if that’s a good or back thing

It has the possibility to break up the UK

It could ruin any relationship with the EU countries

It all looks pretty scary to me

 

[Hobbit]

Can someone explain why a No Deal exit would be such a disaster for the UK? And can someone explain why a No Deal exit wouldn't actually be that big a deal? The Remain side of the debate seem to believe the former and many on the Leave side believe the latter. Now obviously both statements cannot be correct so is one of them right and the other wrong or is the truth somewhere in the middle? And if you could do it in simple terms (pretend your explaining to a 10 year old) that would be great.

If you trawl back through the thread you’ll find hundreds of reasons for and against. Most of those opinions have a bias towards a preferred outcome. Most are right, either way, in support of their preferred outcome.

 

[ColchesterFC]

At the minute it seems as though all of the pressure is on the UK government to agree a deal. Would a No Deal exit flip that and put the pressure onto the EU to get a deal agreed? German manufacturing and southern European holiday destinations would be wanting a deal and it has the potential to cripple Ireland due to the amount of goods going there that transit through the UK - would these have be checked when they arrived in the UK and then checked again when it arrived in Ireland? A double delay for customs checks would surely be a disaster for Ireland.

 

[Hobbit]

At the minute it seems as though all of the pressure is on the UK government to agree a deal. Would a No Deal exit flip that and put the pressure onto the EU to get a deal agreed? German manufacturing and southern European holiday destinations would be wanting a deal and it has the potential to cripple Ireland due to the amount of goods going there that transit through the UK - would these have be checked when they arrived in the UK and then checked again when it arrived in Ireland? A double delay for customs checks would surely be a disaster for Ireland.

We were at a meeting today with members of staff from the British Consulate and members of the national and local govt. In or out, nothing changes for British nationals in Spain. All T&C's currently in place will be in place post-Brexit.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

At the minute it seems as though all of the pressure is on the UK government to agree a deal. Would a No Deal exit flip that and put the pressure onto the EU to get a deal agreed? German manufacturing and southern European holiday destinations would be wanting a deal and it has the potential to cripple Ireland due to the amount of goods going there that transit through the UK - would these have be checked when they arrived in the UK and then checked again when it arrived in Ireland? A double delay for customs checks would surely be a disaster for Ireland.

I don’t think anyone wants a no deal - both sides want a deal that they see is best for them , the problem seems to be is the EU are better negotiates than the rabble we have ( maybe because they are more dedicated and have a direction )

I don’t see holiday destinations having too much of a say - German manufacturing , well will it go back to the days of tax free cars which the good old military took advantage off ?

Maybe this vote will bring the EU closer to a better deal for the UK ?

As for Ireland - a no deal just rips the country , can see it being the start of a joint Ireland

 

[ColchesterFC]

As with anything truth closer to the middle - It’s prob a walk into the unknown

Having a guess it would mean

EU workers losing rights ? - Only if we chose that to be the case?

Tariffs on goods going both ways - We import more than we export so do we benefit from this?

Customs delays by a possible considerable increase of time which could affect millions of people - Would affect both sides and potentially more damaging to EU due to the UK being their 2nd biggest supplier of medicines?

Freedom of movement stops - the uk can stop anyone from EU entering if they wish - Could be considered good or bad depending on what side of the argument you're on

I think it wouldn’t have to pay the bill ? - Again another that could be seen from either side. We don't have to pay the £39 billion but how would it look if we left and didn't fulfill our promised spending commitments, pension contributions etc?

Could we catch as much fish as we want ? - Only if we chose that to be the case?

And we work under WTO rules - not sure if that’s a good or back thing - We import more than we export so do we benefit from this?

It has the possibility to break up the UK - the SNP want to do that anyway whether we Leave or Remain. It might accelerate the process but it seems likely that it will happen at some point.

It could ruin any relationship with the EU countries

It all looks pretty scary to me

Just a few thoughts above in response to your points....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Have to say that the way that Mairead McGuinness was speaking when interviewed by Ch4 News this evening, when she was saying she and the EU needed to understand why those who voted against the deal did so as there were multiple reasons - and what the UK government would now actually want - you could draw a conclusion that there is some scope for the EU to move their position on the agreement - not something I would have expected. But I may have misread what she said.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

When have facts ever mattered to him

Here is one for you, seems the BBC reporter was right.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...ns-loss-in-history/ar-BBSihXV?ocid=spartandhp

 

[harpo_72]

Bit of a wash out really, not sure what Corbyn is really hoping to get from this, I don’t think there is enough non Tories to carry it through, none will side with labour. He needs to take a position one that is agreed amongst his party... Dare I say it the Liberals look a more credible opposition because they have made a decision.

 

[Slab]

So what happens next

No one wants a No Deal in government so will they go back to the EU or will they go for a second referendum will Art 50 delayed by 6 months ?

And are people in the HOC using all this for their own gains instead of thinking about the UK ? Labour using it to try and get into government , Tory MP’s using it to try and get rid of May

Complete farce the lot of them

Listening to it on the radio on the way home and they are all a joke and an embarrassment - they have had two years and we have got nowhere. God help the country with any of these in charge if we leave we no deal

Thank god im getting an Irish Passport.

These people are playing games with peoples lives

Good post and says it all really and the last part especially seems lost on the MP's collectively



(is it weird that despite never being a Tory voter, I actually feel a bit sorry for the PM! )